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Old 03-13-2007, 05:49 AM   #3
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: "Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" Forum

Mike Haft wrote: View Post
Snipped a chunk of a nice post. I also think that there are people who have been doing a lot of the things talked about by Mike and Dan for a long time within aikido already.
Uh huh. Not in my experience. But hey, here's a list of things to try and you let us know if you can do them (I've modified the list from someone else's posting elsewhere)

Stand relaxed with feet side by side about shoulder width apart and do not use any waza, your hands, or any offensive techniques and remain that way while .....

1. Have someone push your chest with one hand in an attempt to push you over. Really push.
2. Then two hands as hard as he can. We're talking total 100% full force of whole body pushing you.
3. Then have him pile drive into you.
4. Then even casually.. increasing to severely- pull you and push you around while you stand there without moving your feet. Let them have your wrist and let them pull you for all their worth.
5. Place your hand on his chest. Without moving your shoulders or body in any discernable way, send them 3-6' with your hand.

Before we go further, Mike Haft, please try those and post your results. In fact, video would be better. Because if you can't do *all* the above, then you're not doing what Mike and Dan are doing.

Mike Haft wrote: View Post
My own irritation is that I have not gone to an MMA forum and told them that they're all wrong and need to do more aikido type stuff to make their training complete (the response would both infantile and ill-informed I expect). Nor have I gone to a Chinese martial art forum and done the same thing.
You know what really gets to me? This hypocrisy about non-aikido people not knowing anything about aikido. It's simply amazing that all these naysayers jump all over Dan and Mike about them being outside of Aikido and not knowing anything about *their* Aikido because Mike and Dan don't *do* aikido. Yet, they'll turn right around and lap up everything Ellis posts about the history of Aikido and Daito Ryu. To coin a phrase from some teens, OMG!

Mike Haft wrote: View Post
Not much of what they have added here has been new, I remember debates about internal 'stuff' happening plenty of times before, we used to call them 'ki wars', the MMA stuff used to be the 'hard vs soft debate', all of these have been done to death over the years by people within aikido.
Not much new? Yeah, Dan and Mike have been saying these things for years, but this ain't "ki" wars. Did you not read Ron's posts? Have you not read all the back postings about what's really going on here? Or did you just skim it all? Do your research. Go to E-Budo. There were threads of stuff over there.

Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I don't disagree with what has been said, I agree with most of it I have thought these things for years and it is what my teacher does too for the most part. You're welcome to discuss it with him, he's just dug out his aikiweb username and password so maybe he'll appear here from time to time.
It'd be interesting to hear how you and your teacher fared on #1 through #5 above. In all seriousness. I don't think anyone can continue these discussions until they've tried at least those 5 things. If you can't do them all, then you don't know, nor do you understand what's being said here. It's that simple.

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