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Old 03-09-2007, 02:21 PM   #8
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 604
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Re: Aikido as External Art -or- Where's the Chewy Center?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I dnlt care if we call it an internal art-thats a name. But it was EXACTLY his internal "skills" in Daito ryu that led to Takeda, Sagawa and Kodo being lauded and Deguchi and many many others recognizing Ueshiba as brilliant. I just give the credit where it belongs. You guys don't.
Dan,

I agree that Sagawa has a great rep, as do Ueshiba and Kodo.

It is my experience that the same problems of incomplete transmission and loss of efficacy you reference in aikido are very much present in at least one line of DRAJJ.

What evidence do you have about specific training methods that undercuts the case Christian made? If you can document the existence of these methods, how is it that they have not been sufficient to prevent DRAJJ from undergoing precisely the same degeneration as what you term Ueshiba-ha DRAJJ?

Takeda had a great many students who didn't amount to squat.

So he had three who did. So what? Maybe the genius lay in their sheer persistence along with an innate ability to steal the technique and had zip, zilch, zed, nada to do with the training method of DRAJJ.

Maybe Takeda was precisely the same kind of sorry scheming moneygrubbing withholding scoundrel you seem to assert all senior aikidoka are.

For your case to stand, you have to prove that that supposition is wrong.

And let's be clear: you can't do it. If you could do it, you would have done it in the past 10 years. And you haven't.

That has nothing to do with the case of whether "internal skills" will benefit other martial artists, whether you have a set of valid "internal skills," whether you are personally have acquired such skills, whether you are generous about sharing those skills, whether Ueshiba, Kodo and Sagawa had "internal skills" or whether they acquired those skills after training with Takeda.

There is one question in play and one only:

Where is the evidence of specific and explicit methods of transmission of specific "internal skills" to the specific individuals within the specific art you name again and again?

Where is it aside from your speculations based on an incomplete historical record?

Where indeeed?

FL
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