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Old 01-14-2007, 05:12 PM   #22
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Stealing techniques

Ignatius Teo wrote:
I I agree, establishing a "baseline" is a positive step forward, BUT... WHAT is the baseline? And by WHOSE standards? Especially if such *basic* and *necessary* information is "open to interpretation"...
I think the baseline is any degree of kokyu/ki forces, no matter what terminology you use for them. In my way of defining things (which I use because in my opinion it makes things easier to explain), there are the "jin" forces and the body-development of the "qi" which is a complex issue, but I mainly mean the myofascial coordination part of it. The Ki Society calls both things together the "Ki", but in reality we're talking about the same thing. There are other variations of the ki and kokyu terminology, in addition, but they all refer to the same basic skills.

Regardless of the broad spectrum of ability in the Ki Society people I have seen (some have it OK or even good, some are totally missing it or are missing a portion of it), they are within the baseline, as a style, more so than any other Aikido group that I've seen, although they seem to have a sort of self-imposed ceiling on how high they can go.

There are some other groups I've seen that have a few people developing skills to some limited degree, but it doesn't qualify as an achieve baseline (IMO) for the whole style. I think there needs to be some sort of gathering where the idea of a baseline is discussed, demonstrated, and so forth. Whether there is ever such an agreement or not, some groups are already pulling ahead on their own initiative, so ultimately (but at a much more distant time) a lot of this will come to pass anyway, I think.
This goes back to my other point... even if you can start to understand that these skills are common to Asian MA, if you don't know what you're looking for, how do you know what to look for?
I think you have to be shown the odd feel of this stuff in enough variations to get a clear idea of the total of what you're looking for. So you're right, that part needs some help.
Perhaps analysing what the similarities are between Ueshiba and Master Sum, would be a start?
Interestingly enough, what they did is simple, on one level... on another level the differences in what they did are fairly complex. I don't want to get into the complex part because it would be a complete waste of time on this forum, but the simple part is interesting because it's a good window into the whole set. However, it's probably a topic for a different thread, rather than for this one on thievery.


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