David Yap wrote:
We were refering to ppl who fumbled with their grips (thus rendering ineffective applications). Unless the uke has been trained to give charity falls as there are usually done in dance schools, no uke in his/her "right" frame of mind will just stand there waiting for the nage to adjust his/her grip and continue to offer a connection to be thrown, especially when it is going to be a nasty throw. Come to think about it, I sometime do give charity falls when partnered with a nasty and uncaring nage
Opps, that's more than my 2 sen.
Once again, you are turning this into a strawman by assuming improprieties are necessary to the throw. Missing an exact kote gaeshi grip doesn't mean uke is just standing there. The way I was taught, uke is generally stuck in the foot you said he/she should take a step with and led to a position of uncomfortable couching and unbalance with musubi hand/forearm connection before one actually grips in earnest. The whole point of going for the alternate grip is that you have an advantage and you need to do something with it before they regain balance and mobility. In the case of using it for an ikkyo reversal, the whole reason to apply it is that it is appropriate to movement and position of uke, not that they are just standing there and you decide to force it on them.
Also, I see no reason why ukemi for the alternate version is necessarily nasty and aversive. It does involve more torque and hitting the mat harder than most versions of kote gaeshi, but I consider it relatively easy and pleasant ukemi compared to many other throws.