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Old 01-05-2007, 11:04 AM   #14
Ellis Amdur
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Location: Seattle
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 849
Wink Re: Ueshiba, Takeda, & 1921 - What happened?

Mark - you are trying so hard! And causing Dan to wax polemic at such length (everything he says is correct, I think except for the aikido naming, but it's your fault he's so exercised). 1) Takeda changed the name before. It was called Yamato-ryu - and Yoshida Kotaro said, "No, the kanji is read Daito-ryu" and Takeda said, "OK." So now Takeda is at Ayabe, teaching his then favorite student - intensely. And at that time, there is absolutely NO account that UEshiba was trying to do anything different - he was just doing Daito-ryu. And Takeda was probably talking about "aiki this, aiki that" and another smart man like Kotaro - Deguchi - who could read, even though he had an aggravating personality, said something like, "You keep talking about aiki. And it sure isn't like jujutsu. Why not call it aikijutsu?" And Takeda said, "Sure." The rounding of the corners, etc., All that came FAR afterwards. I met a student of a son of one of UEshiba's oldest Omoto DR disciples, who, of course, called what he did Aikido. The son said that his father's "aikido" was really different. It was "sharp," he "cut" the corners, etc. etc. (I'm going to pull a "Dan" here and as a rhetorical question - Why did so many of the prewar deshi either quit and form their own group, quit entirely, or hold themselves far away from the post-war aikikai? - - - - - Yes, I think Ueshiba got BETTER after the war, but he no longer taught how he did it - a lot of which was the pre-war instruction - ummmm Daito-ryu called something else - - - - and he rounded the angles for this other thing he was propogating, which Dan described so elegantly in so few words somewhere in one of the threads).
And DAn, BTW - the aikido name change was done by the Butokukai, upon a presentation of Hirai Minoru, because they wanted to make a "section" of the Butokukai that included all the non-judo arts that had grappling - jujutsu was in the aikido section!!!!! Because they didn't want an argument with the torite and kogusoku and kempo and koshi no mawari and hakuda guys saying that they weren't doing jujutsu. So aikido was chosen cause NOBODY was doing it - including the aikido people!!

Last edited by Ellis Amdur : 01-05-2007 at 11:09 AM.

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