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Old 01-05-2007, 07:28 AM   #10
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: Ueshiba, Takeda, & 1921 - What happened?

Hi Mark
Well how much is going to be publicly broadcast?
Its too much water under the bridge and yakin about issues that can't be resolved.
First of all Daito ryu as an art, never "changed" from Daito ryu jujutsu to Daito ryu aikijujutsu.
It always "was" jujutsu, aikijujutsu and aiki-no-jutsu.

Further, to say that "Under Ueshibas watch the techniques changed" is not a positive commentary made by any in Daito ryu!!

Moreover, how is it that the technical changes he was bringing, resulted in his still awarding scrolls (the use of the Daito ryu hidden mokuroku) and his changing of the very arts name on it in Ueshiba's own writing (one can argue whether a teaching representative had a write to change the actual name of an art while using it own scrolls)

Was it simply a bid for reputation? His nephew conceded that when Ueshiba was given permssion to teach Ueshiba suddenly appeared in full formal get-up and told him with pride that he was finally going to become a jujutsu teacher. His nephew thought the display was a bit over the top. Did it reveal a bit of a need? And was it a causal factor of his latter wanting all the credit for himself?

Because folks are so concentrated on Ueshiba and his notoriety they forget that Takeda had his own very firmly established reputation thorugh decades of work. Realize at this time that Takeda was traveling throughout Japan teaching Military and Police, very high ranking military people and very high ranking in society as well. Including princes and princesses. In short, contrary to all the overly exaggerated bad press we hear today it was highly unlikely he was successfully navigating those circles with an unstable personality.
It is just as probable that he was, in the presence of a Ueshibas' students simply angry at Ueshiba's behavior and the use of the art, while changing the name. To close the angles and make the techniques less dangerous, and to open the circles to make it both easier to learn and do and prettier. Is not something I'd be labeling an improvement any time soon.

If you read some of the interviews and then also read between the lines you can understand why a friend of Sagawa and Takeda was sent to Ueshiba with a letter containing 5 questions outlining the "behavior" of Ueshiba. Outlining in essense, a clear intent. "Why are you lying?"

There is no -longer- any doubt as to where his art came from. But there was a concerted effort to greatly minimize Takeda and Daito ryu's influence. Again contrary to the old "aikido" mantra of him "needing to change it and get away from this maniac. One has to consider other questions. Since, Takeda had in fact, a very good reputation among both the well to do and the military and police, and among the general populace-to the point of a newspaper sending a reporter to hunt him down for an interview all the way to Hokkaido, just what was he running away from? As an aside it is interesting that in that same interview -It was Takeda -not- Ueshiba who stated that the art was for self-defense and to control the opponent not to harm.
"This technique is a perfect self-defense art where you avoid being cut, hit or kicked while at the same time you don't hit, kick or cut. As the attack comes you handle it expediently using the power of your opponent. So even women and children can execute these techniques. But I make it a rule not to teach the techniques to anyone without proper references because they are frightening if misused. I understand that there are people teaching these techniques in Tokyo [probably a reference to Morihei Ueshiba who was teaching in Tokyo at this time], but I don't think you can teach other people well unless you are very skilled yourself.""

Full interview here-

In either event it is clear that it was the internal skills of Takeda that enabled Sagawa, Kodo, Hisa and Ueshiba to be so impressive. It was Ueshiba who -all while demonstrating the true skills- in fact rarely if ever, taught them.
So why would he want to change the name? And distance himself from such a well-known powerhouse?
Did he want sole credit for "creating" this loving new vision?
Or did he simply want his own "claim to fame"
We'll never know.


Last edited by DH : 01-05-2007 at 07:39 AM.
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