View Single Post
Old 12-14-2006, 03:47 PM   #63
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,437
United_States
Offline
Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Do you understand how these directionally-variable forces are generated, Erick? That's the question I'd ask, since you seem to agree with the general premises.
At the joints or as to uke generally? The shape is found by sensing the line of equal circumferential pressure in the joint -- that is, by elminating any hinging pressures in the joints under load. Once the input is felt -- it is modified by Incremental or continuous rotations in perpendicular plane orientations to the input vector plane.

In contact, this is like sending a wave down a rope or chain, and a wave is just translated rotation. And as I indicated above, there is one and only one way to push on a chain, and only assuming the chain wants to be pushed.

So, if in katatedori he is not pushing in the shape of a chain to begin with, he cannot push you by your arm (unless he takes the same shape). basically you progressively form the shape of the falling chain in reverse progating that shape (in compression and rotation) to him in kokyu. The wrist rotates, the elbow rotates the shoulder rotates --all in the same direction,. his shape gradually changes in the same incremental way but with different effects.

All this time he has been pushing, and you have been the "falling chain in reverse" with incremental rotations like the falling joint of the chain, he has basically pushed himself up and back, creating his own reaction (arch thrust) from his push. But his structure is progressively rotated out of alignment with the plane of his push. So he has formed his own mutally opposed offset forces, a couple, and starts to rotate further.

Instead of the fixed end of the chain hanging in tension at his shoulder as with the falling chain example, the fixed end is in compression (you form an inverted arch of your paired arms) and his shoulder pops up. As you continue the motion and rotations his shoulder cannot rise further and then his elbow buckles in the compression of his own push, and pops up, etc. etc. etc. Like a chain falling link by link off a table under its own weight -- but in reverse, his arm and torso rise and pop over from his own push.

To anticipate the objection -- I can maintain compression while moving with the impinging force -- that is not resistance.

You adapt your shape and continue the rotations of your joints to mimic the falling chain (upwards), and he rotates more, etc. etc. etc. skewing himself in three dimensions. At some point it all reverses at the top and he gets cut down in ikkyo by the reverse motion uncoiling all the above back at him.

So your cosine vector thought is not too far off the waves of rotations he is receiving, but the control methodology you advocate at the begining tends to the resistant mode, which is the problem I have with it.
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Well, when O-Sensei bounced people off his chest, thigh, hit them with his back, hit them with his sword, etc., he used resistive forces
O Sensei said "no resistance", not "no violence." Aikido by all means uses force ("vi"olence -- Latin: "vi et armis"= "with force and arms"), but not resistive force. The chest and thigh pushes are continuous reversals and offsets under guidance, not direct countering pushes. (think tight elliptical orbits or to continue the imagery -- a chain hung just past its midpoint over a rod and then falling off, but again -- in compression, not tension)

But seriously, I doubt they were able to resist his atemi too much ...

One cannot strike or grab without rotating a limb in at least one of three planes-- it is hardly a reach that blending with and manipulating them necessarily involves rotations also.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
The last part of your explanation doesn't fit as a description to what I know can be done with the mind and forces, but it's pointless to try and describe what is happening.
Have you never felt that uncoiling whip in the ikkyo omote ?? The one you have to leave off of at that last moment to avoid uke's rotator cuff popping loose as his head slaps and bounces off the ground while his feet are leaving it? Particularly when you stopped trying so hard to do just that?

I've felt it and analogized it that way for years, but it took some fairly serious pondering to come to an understanding that indeed the same mechanics are operating and do operate in both the tension and compression load regimes.

Everything I have said operates equally in the classic tension chain regime, and there are many techniques that use that. The probem for training is that techniques using these principles in tension tend to awaken the hind-brain monkey pulling instinct, which destroys the classic chain shape by popping it into a tight line for which rotations (in torsion) while very possibole and powerful, are far more difficult to manipulate and to see directly.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote