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Old 11-29-2006, 05:28 AM   #279
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: Aikido: The learning of natural movement

David Orange wrote:
Mike has much more CMA background than he has aikido. And Akuzawa's background also seems to be more Chinese than aiki-oriented, so I'm still not sure that this isn't something that's being adopted from Chinese arts and applied to Japanese arts--not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't think it's part of the original nature of the Japanese arts and so it's mistaken to say that "this" is what's missing from Japanese budo.
Hi David,
Your point is very well taken. So much so that it is one of the main reasons that this stuff hasn't been accepted very well in the Aikido world. It is coming from outsiders.

If any of this stuff had come from inside an Aikido organization, guess what ... we'd *still* have the same discussions going on now. Just a bit different in that it would be various schools defending their way of training/teaching/whatever from another school. Aikido is so splintered that to change the whole, one must change a multitude of parts. Er ... getting off subject here ... anyway, yes, this stuff is coming from outside the Aikido world.

It's understandable that people will say, hey, why do you think what your doing is missing in Aikido? Kind of presumptuous, don't you think? Well, yeah, in a way. But, not necessarily wrong, though. Once you get a feel for it, you realize that what they're doing can really be classified as "aiki". But it's an aiki that's done a different way than most Aikido schools practice.

And here is where people sometimes get bent out of shape. No one is saying that the current Aikido training is worthless and should be scrapped. Takeda and Ueshiba certainly had techniques that they taught. We still learn those techniques. But, what is being said is that there is another way of having "aiki" and there is a training program that is more efficient in gaining this internal skill. If you're doing Aikido, you still need to know and understand the techniques of the system. Ueshiba never dropped them, so why would we?

I don't know how you've trained, David. You may have learned some of this stuff, but coming from Mochizuki sensei, you may have been taught different terms. Dunno. One of these days, I'll make it down your way and we can get together and have some fun.

David Orange wrote:
Well, that's a couple of more points, Mark. Please note that Ikeda sensei said "power through kokyu." To me, this reinforces what I have said--that kokyu, itself, is NOT power and certainly not an "issued" power. You achieve power "through" kokyu, which is to say through integrating mind and body via the breath.
Everyone is different. I've found that the English language can be easily translated into many definitions. For example, your last sentence. To me, I can take that as an internal skill. Mind and body integrated via the breath. It certainly captures some of the exercises I've been trying to do. But, you didn't mean it that way. So, through words, we come to various meanings. It happens all to often. I guess that's why seminars were invented. To get a feel for everyone's interpretation.

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