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Old 11-22-2006, 04:24 PM   #223
TAnderson
Location: Arlington, VA
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
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Re: Aikido: The learning of natural movement

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Even if some practitioners make connections between them, I have not read that Shioda ever did, and what these exercises claim to do I see working on Shioda's principles, not those that Mike describes. But he and I differ on our understanding of what mechanics are actually involved, so there you go. Einstein was wrong about quantum mechanics, too.

I do not in any way equate Shioda's approach with any version of nei jin or the mechanics (as I understand them) typical of the nei-jia schools. (As an aside, Shioda's kihon dosa paradigm does however fit the "rapid cycle" OODA paradigmatic training regime, earlier mentioned, FWIW)

In fact, I think Shioda has the better of the argument in terms of what is actually happening from what I have seen and felt in the pushout exercise, as opposed to what Mike describes. Having tried the same exercises according to the principles I have seen demonstrated, I say what I know and have felt and have seen.
Well Erick, I think this has come down to how we each understand the terminology involved. The problem, among others, I have with David's model is that he has defined Aiki in such a way that his hypothesis cannot be disproved (this is according to him).
Your definition of Aiki, Kokyu, and Ki seem to greatly differ from mine. If you like, read the section on Kokyu Power in Aikido Shugyo by Gozo Shioda. I have no problem reconciling what is discussed there with the previous description from Mike, Dan, Rob, and others. I can say this about many other works as well....
I can say with some confidence that what Ushiro has been teaching at camp is no different from what has been described by the aforementioned individuals. Ikeda seems to link what Ushiro is doing directly with Aikido so there we have another connection.
We could go round and round discussing this but without some hands on experience it won't matter. As with most things, these elements need to be felt. Much is lost in verbal descriptions.

Tim Anderson
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