Dave Humm wrote:
Hi mate.. thanks for the clarification however, from a kihon point of view, no I'm not "doing" gokyo ude nobashi as you suggest, I am teaching as illustrated in my post, that's me making the pin on one of my students, the way gokyo was taught to me. The standing method as depicted in your post isn't something I've ever been taught formally in an aikido class (not to say it doesn't exist in aikido) but it's something I've taught to my students based upon my Prison Service training.
Understood. As I said, I see the standard kihon as illustration of basic principles and as "seed" techniques. So, even though such things aren't formally taught in Aikido, generally, it is nonetheless a part of the osaekomi waza family.
I am of the opinion that Aikido is a principle-based martial art, rather than one based on a (limited) technical repertoire. Understanding the principle, therefore allows us to fully appreciate the limitless applications of technique. OTOH, technique-based arts, such as jujitsu, utilize variations of the same principles.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone use the rear hammerlock (ushiro ude garami), whilst transitioning from nikkyo/sankyo into the pin? I realise some may not know what I'm talking about, but it illustrates my point that sometimes, such things aren't explicitly or formally taught in class.
Fundamentally I don't see many of the osae waza as effective immobiliasations, yes they can induce (varying degrees of) control over uke's center but someone fully resisting may well be able to find their way out of these "pins".. I know because I've tried them in one form or another during my work and not all of them are ideal ways of fully restraining someone who really doesn't want to be restrained.
I generally agree. They are not particularly effective, as they are taught in Aikido generally, against a fully resistant uke - especially if they're not too concerned about dislocating something. But then the same can be said of small joint manipulation techniques generally....
OTOH, it *may* be possible to do so IF you pin the entire body through the structure like you would in kokyu-dosa...