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Old 10-01-2006, 11:16 PM   #72
Erick Mead
 
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
On the other hand, this is a completely different kind of learning (with far fewer guarantees) than that associated with simply absorbing an already-understood body of knowledge.
I don't know, Erick. I understand the rhetorical point you are making - but it's a big problem if people have somehow failed to learn the non-secrets, ...And since it *is* possible to communicate them without *too much* difficulty, I have to wonder about any rhetorical position that denies the importance of doing this.
The problem is the self-selective nature of this group that is prepared to learn it without such difficulty. If all we teach are those that come looking, then well, of course, you are indisputably right. If we are seeking to broaden the exposure and reach those who may not have considered aikido, or know nothing about it, we have a different problem of threshold reference. We could take the callous commercial inducements route of the more common gendai and not care, or the sport route and promote the "bigger faster stonger" paradigm, but that would give up root principle and the deadly seriousness in the task of the art. All of that is inappropriate to aikido.
Quote:
Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
It seems that you do not account for the body's capacity to store and release energy through torsional deformation or the manipulation of internal pressure.
Not at all, or at least not in the way you, Mike and others seem to advocate. It is more correct to say that the strain form of energy storage is among the conceptual items that I specifically see that aikido is intended to avoid as unnecessary in application of technique. It is also correct to say that in an attack, that kind of "wind-up" joint loading is precisely the vulnerability that aiki exploits.

A torqued joint has potential energy (which can be released by a negligible disturbing input.) It also has established a plane of force orientation, and thus is exposed to distrubance without direct resistance on two other coordinate planes. Strain energy is what creates overt "feel." And technique that "feels" like almost nothing unitl it feels like the mat is striking my body somewhere is the epitome of performance in my experience as uke.

Applying or receiving subnstantial amounts of such strain energy in the body necessarily requires strength, or rather, strength is a major measure of the limits of both applications of it. Aiki technique does not require it, and is not limited by it, although it certainly can be applied to give or take it at need, and is often performed so as to give such results, it is the ultimate goal of training to dispense with it.

The only stored energy necessarily released and then recovered is a transient angular momentum, not a potential torque strain. I only receive such strain if I try to reject energy I gather or hold onto energy I release. If I let them both go, I am not under strain, because I allow the energy to move me as it will and retain no potential wind-up or tension energy to impart. I leave the energy in the movement.

Traditionally, nage gathers ki in the hara, transforming and then giving it form with technique and then gives it concrete connection through ki musubi and juji to another person, letting the all ki no kokyu pass by means of aiki technique maintained with kokyu tanden ho.

This is my analytical equivalent, by no means as succint, but by being less dense, perhaps more approachable. Energy is traded in a small, brief drop of the CG, losing potential and gaining kinetic energy. That energy is transiently stored as angular momentum in an additional excursion of the normal hip gyration of the existing balance sytem. By means of precessional transformations that angular momentum energy is transferred from hip to spine to shoulder to elbow to wrist. (These are also seen in training exercises such as funatori and furitama).

Nage's delivery of energy in technique is performed so as to fade to nearly nothing at contact -- where the actual energy at contact is nil, but the potential energy again reaches a maximum (cresting the hill). Nage's actual momentum energy, at nil on contact, is very naturally brought into synchrony by perpendicular plane to uke's attack momentum, which is at maximum actual energy for delivery on one plane, but close to nil in actual energy on two of three coordinate planes.

Then the gyrational cascade back into uke's balance system is begun by technique along the line of least strain -- cascading that angular momentum energy back downhill, using the obverse of the mechanism that delivered it, and adding to it the gyrationally transformed momentum of the attack. This propagates back down the same chain into the center of uke's balance center, with the excess of his attacking energy disrupting its normal gyration beyond recovery limits, and providing nage postural advantage. As it is a purely rotational transformation that occurs along the line of least strain with negligible induced strain energy, uke does not feel "resisted" by the reaction or strain energy that creates "feel."
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Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Probably not, since "joint locks" are not the principle on which aiki rests, nor does the application of kokyu require anything like a "joint lock" -- although they may well easily result from its application.
Hmmm, probably best to drop it then - since you introduced the topic in the first place, seemingly as an explanation of how kokyu works in your gyro model.
If you may recall, my example with nikkyo was specifically with the other joints unrestrained from rotation, and thus not capable of being "locked" so as to illustrate that natural rotational transformation. Nikkyo as a joint lock is an application of strain energy that occurs by restraining the natural rotations, and a resulting occurrence -- a contingency, but not a principle of action.

We should train nikkyo with sufficent "feel" to maintain form and so students know what is happening in that rotation and their good connection with it, and strive to lose that feel without losing the connection. With proper ki musubi in the technique, every joint is moving simultanouesly in three axes and no joint ever achieves sufficient positional stability for uke to focus the resistance that creates the lock.

Even in kihon, the lock is uke's to create, not mine to apply, although I certainly can if I choose to, and do for training or demonstration purposes. But for good training what I really need is an uke who continues his attack, and therefore makes nikkyo work on my choice of form but HIS choice of energy. Given my druthers, I'll happily stand there until he continues his attack -- and locks himself up.
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Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Anything that rotates obeys gyroscopic laws of mechanics. Period - no exceptions.
Yes, but this isn't really saying anything. Obviously there are places where gyroscopic laws are an appropriate analytical tool and those where they are not - just like any other subset of mechanics. We're just disagreeing about whether this is a good place to try to apply these rules.
Please frame the elements of your disagreement to show why these rules are not admissible for a given technique or aiki movement. That's all I ask. Contradiction is not argument -- Monty Python notwithstanding ...
Quote:
Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
Yes, this is the crux. Let me clear up my position - in case it was not made clear earlier in this response. The topics to which I (and other posters) are alluding are what I would consider foundational basics.
Then cease alluding, please. "S'plain! S'plain!"
Quote:
Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
I personally find soccer better with a ball, and I have witnessed the frustration of those trying to play soccer without one. ...
I personally find soccer better with a very tall bourbon whisky, preferably two, as it does seem very nearly entertaining at that point, or at least marginally more so than the grass growing under their feet ...
Quote:
Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote:
Some people are saying, "The Emperor has no clothes," and are being labeled as elitists or as trouble makers. ... I'm really just writing because I want others who don't really know about the existence of a pragmatic paradigm based on traditional training methodologies to know there is such a thing - so they can benefit from it *if they choose*. ... I think it's important that the simple explanations being offered are understood for what they are.
Which is anything but simple based on the articulations I have seen attempted here so far in this and other threads, or at any rate, no less complex or inhibiting than rotational dynamics.

Take the "pushout drill" as example (and the most concrete thing I have seen yet described). It seems to me that this is kokyu tanden ho, traditionally understood. I visualized while reading what was written and then did it and it fit quite neatly into my spectrum of kokyu ho repertory. If I am missing something in my grasp of what is being described -- please point it out. Or, point out some other exercises or techniques that illustrate the problem I keep hearing alluded to, but I have not yet heard articulated.

In my training career, I have been doing kokyu tanden ho/ kokyu dosa regularly in three different cadet branches of aikido -- mainline Federation Aikiaki, Iwama and ASU, in no particular order (four if you count my brief sojourn with Chiba, and not counting my intermittent training opportunities in Yoshinkan in Japan, who did not do it,at least while I was training).

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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