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Old 09-26-2006, 06:32 PM   #61
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 906
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Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Just some comments, and by the way, as I'm sure you know, I'm just interested in the dialectic here. Like you I'm figuring this stuff out as I go, based on what I'm exposed to, and I'm not presuming to tell you how you should be training or (even worse) what aiki is/should be.

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
One does not move a rock using "aiki", unless, as Mike Sigman would probabaly maintain, you include "internal power" as inherently part of "aiki". I don't but I understand why he might.
and

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
This makes any sort of "leading his ki" impossible. At that point if you want to move him, you need to supply the energy. At some point I will probabaly make a study of how to generate that kind of power. My exchanges with Mike Sigman have given me some insight into what that might entail but it isn't the focus of my practice right now.
That pretty much describes what I've been working on of late. The same mechanics that work on a heavy bag or 100lb barbell work on a resistant uke, mix in some psychological effects and weaknesses of the bipedal frame and it just gets easier. Anyway, if it's not what you're working on, then certainly factor that into my comments as it may not apply to your own focus of study these days. That's also why I made the distinction between leading and directing, and satsujinken vs. katsujinken.

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
The example of Judo is a bit off the mark, although I don't totally disagree with your point. Mifune was unthrowable while he kept his energetic outflow, his awareness at all times. He had to because he was still feeling for the opening to throw the other guy. It's a bit different than the guy who is acting as dumb as a rock.
I wasn't clear enough on this, so this is great point. What I'm talking about is the ability to spontaneously and instantly become immovable just long enough to distrupt an attack. This ability can literally floor someone all by itself. You see this in some of the footage of Mifune when MUCH bigger well trained guys are setting up for a perfect throw and he just bounces them off of him. They not only blow the throw, but lose their grip on him and their footing just from hitting such an unexpectedly grounded opponent, who moments before was literally dancing about. You could think of this as the opposite to one of those perfect irimi kokyunage that you use in randori. nothing...nothing..nothing..(perfect moment) BANG (your entire body transmits the force into uke's weakness)... (then back to) nothing... nothing.. nothing... That clearer?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Don Angier Sensei, Endo Sensei, Saotome Sensei, and Toby Threadgill all have moved me relatively effortlessly but they were all using my own outflow of energy to do it. I doubt if any of them could move me if I just collapsed my energy field and grounded out, at least not without some technique designed to elicit a response like an atemi, a painful, pinch, a shock to the structure, something along those lines. It just seems like an awful lot of effort to get something moving that doesn't want to be. If there is no attack, why worry about the throw?
So how would you describe the settling exercise that Toby did on you at his last seminar in Seattle, where he invited you up with the only instruction being to resist him, then placed his hand on your chest and slowly, slowly you sank back and fell over? Then he did it again after you knew what was coming. (Doncha hate that!) I know what the technique flet like when he did it on me, and know that I was not cooperating with the practice. I was trying to stay upright just as you did, just as Kevin did... (darn him, doesn't he know that it's all us aiki-folk that are supposed to be subtle!)


Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Anyway, I figure I can conventrate on one aspect at a time in my training. I may get to the point at which my focus becomes developing internal power but right now my interest is in developing my abilty to neutralize the attacker's power. I remember someone saying (Okamoto Sensei, perhaps?) "If you understand what was done to you, it wasn't aiki". I want to understand that. I am just arriving at the start of being able to do it. I just don't need to worry about hauling a bunch of human boulders around at this stage in my training.
Absolutely. We all come with different skills and interests. I've been training to be soft ever since I started at budo, so for the last few years I've been trying to be harder, so that's what I'm looking at. I imagine you went through your hard phase decades ago. Thanks for the discourse.
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