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Old 09-18-2006, 07:52 AM   #34
Erick Mead
 
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Re: What is Weight Transfer(Taijuuidou)??

Quote:
Dave Findlay wrote:
I find the main time things get counter-productive is when someone doesn't really get the point of a particular exercise - ie doesn't know what they are training or why they are doing it, and consequently the point is missed.
Frustration is a delicate thing. Too much and the receptivity shuts down and the mind/body reverts to established paths; too little, and the learning parts of the body/mind don't pay enough attention, and are not challenged enough to alter those paths.
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David Findlay wrote:
Oh. Haven't numerous threads discussed this recently? ie, about aikido being kokyu-based etc? That would then make sense if Ueshiba said his art was "jujido".
NOT "judo" no ju 柔 but "juji" 十字 no ju 十. If that is what you meant; I try to use kanji to differentiate where necessary.
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
Excuse my ignorance again. Do you have a quick list of the 8 powers you're talking about?
Expansion-Contraction; Unification-Division; Motion-Stillness; Solidification-Fluidity. Hachiriki of the "Ichirei-shikon, sangen-hachiriki" formulation. Re your other question about "Ba-gua" ("eight trigrams") in a later post -- hachiriki is a Japanese view of the same essential system as Chinese "Bagua" which represent the eight evolutionary principles or basis for "changes" of the yin-yang, or in-yo dynamic along various axes or sprectra. The interaction of them altogether is the 8 x 8 = 64 figure system of the I Ching. The basic trigram element of the bagua maps onto the sangen-hachiriki (three origins - eight powers) formulation.
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
I'd question the generalisation of principles used in judo, but I understand vector forces and couples. I recall Statics 101, and if pushed could probably do a reasonable interpretation of a free-body diagram Ok, I'm keeping up - but bearing in mind we are only at the stage of talking free-body-diagram, not interaction of people yet.mmm, not sure about this, but not too worried just now. Sorry, this is getting a little quasi-technical now... I think I'm beginning to get lost.
There is a judo maxim that says "When pulled-push; when pushed-pull." O-Sensei addressed this as to aikido by saying (I cannot attribute at the moment, so bear with me) -- "When pulled - enter; when pushed - turn."
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
BTW - "Virtual work"?
There is separate post that expanded on the role of this, as I see it.
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
Is this saying that its likely uke is only manifesting their force in 2 directions (eg x&y), leaving the third (z) "unguarded" and available for manipulation ("complete freedom of movement")? If so, what happens if direction z isn't where tori wants to put their power? Sounds a bit simplistic to me - maybe I've reduced it too far...
Not exactly. It is more fundamental than that. To attack with maximum force (and why would one attack with less than that, pray tell?) requires planar motion. By doing so it both creates a gyrodynamic situation of rotation/oscillation, and the fundamental aspect of gyrodynamics is that the plane of force formed by the attacking vector and the axis of rotation (say, the x-y plane) is not the plane of the resultant vector once they interact, which depending on orientation of the chosen response may be in either the y-z or x-z planes. merely shifting to an angeld attack does nto change anything it simply establishes a re-oriented coordinate system but precisely the same dynamic -- at a slight skew to an observer with a ground-normal reference.

To deal with this suki, this opening -- one simply cannot attack. If you attack <<here>> you are already defeated <<there>>. If you attack -- you open this door that you have no means of closing because your energy is committed to a plane (x-y, y-z, or x-z) where the aikidoka is not fighting. Which is what Aikido emphasizes. It is not something one can "guard" (unless one alters the local physical constants, which I do not think any one claims that aikido does... Well, may be some do -- but there are people who believe anything.)
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David Findlay wrote:
Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
The vertical dimension and the horizontal dimension of the figure are also joined dynamically by the fact that one becomes the other by simple rotation. Thus, the center is arrived at by spiral motion. The proof is left as an exercise for the class ...
Mmm. Bit lost here.
That is to say that irimi and tenkan are really the same thing when seen from a gyrodynamc perspective. This is represented by the juji + figure in light our shifting frames of reference by gyrodynamic manipulations. The cross is self-similar because it is identical at all scales of view ( i.e.- the direct-entering dimension - or range from center.) and self- similar in rotation becasue it is identical at 90 degree increments of rotation (i.e. the tenkan dimension.) the simultaneous action of both aspects of juji is the spiral.
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
But anyway, the description of juji was originally at my request to the statement of:Based at what I'm guessing Ueshiba's "juji" is from the above doka, I'm guessing its kinda irrelevant whether we have made "just" connection or crossed over into "resistance". By the manifest of *juji* (insert you preferred term here, harvested from a couple of recent threads), then tori should be able to control their partner.
Properly performed -- in application, nage-waza results in the disappearance of force from uke's perspective -- in uke-waza the same thing occurs, thus enabling kaeshi-waza. In training, the trick is to have enough connection/ force for uke and nage each to see WHERE the other is disappearing to -- if that makes some sense? An vector that becomes infinitesimal in magnitude still retains orientation.
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
This kind of analysis risks glossing over the aspect of how to actually deal with resistance, and what it can tell you about a partner's energy/force/etc, and instead rushes into the "technique" side of things, which IMHO can be a road with many dead ends.
Full agreement there.
Quote:
David Findlay wrote:
These are just thoughts of mine, in progress, btw.
Likewise. If cared too much about possibly stumbling and tumbling in front of others, I would hardly be practicing aikido ... That is one of the real intellectual benefits of an rigorous forum on aiki principles (as topic and as the framing dynamic of that discussion).

Last edited by Erick Mead : 09-18-2006 at 07:54 AM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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