So it looks from inspection the 19 was a half-way house between the 15 and 17...
Peter Rehse wrote:
Nariyama Shihan will haul out those four grips and make your head hurt - trying to remember the associated waza.
Yeah, from time to time I try to run through these too. I think on the occasions I've rolled them out at class we kinda have to stop after the first four because people end up just looking too confused. But as I think about them, and also looking at Yamada's book mentioned above*, they look like the same waza, almost, anyhow. I don't know how my descriptions look to you, but do they sound about right? IIRC, I think the waza for #11 was more like a kaiten nage.
I think this is a great set for illustrating a robust classification method of grips and twists. Saying that, when asked, I prefer to talk about just the kaisu and hineru directions, and the desired effects on your partner. With all the /gamae and /te combinations I find it gets a bit cerebral and techniquey, rather than principle-based.
I dunno if its the same for hiji waza though... I think in that case there might be reason for looking at the location (ie, what "o'clock") where you grip uke's arm... and the ensuing leverage you have on the elbow. Not sure on this though.
Anyhow, I was thinking a little bit last night about the differences between the 15 & 17, and it seemed to come down to that the 17 appear essentially more randori-focussed. And technically I guess the 17-hon randori no kata does not have a kote mawashi / nikkyo / gyakute dori kote hineri. Seems like a sensible progression, for the randori vehicle its intended for. Seems that Tomiki bloke might have had a few good ideas
* By the way, found the bits of Tomiki's book late last night, and that had the same 15-hon mentioned.