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Old 08-13-2006, 09:49 PM   #7
Erick Mead
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,616
Re: Rhythm/Speed/Musubi - How they work

Michael Fooks wrote:
Eric I would not interpret those comments as meaning timing is unimportant, Not at all. Ueshiba's comments are about inititiative,not timing.
A distinction without a differnece. "Sen" means "before "; "sensen" means "before before" ie. superlative case; "go" means "after" -- this is order in time, and thus "timing." But the linguistics are a bit beside the point.

My interpretation of O-Sensei's concept of musubi does not involve initiative either. Musubi is extension and acceptance of the expression of hostile intent without opposition. Until that intent forms, musubi does not arise. When musubi does arise, then connection exists, and whether nage or uke acts first, simultaneously, or after the other becomes irrelevant. Yes, different techniques and variations will end up being applied in different ways in the variant timings, especially in learning to perfrom them initially, or in observing the progress of a particular situtaiton. Time certainly is not suspended by the arising of musubi. But timing does not determine victory nor is it part of how aikido properly functions. Timing occurs, but is not operative; musubi is operative.
Don Magee wrote:
Anytime two people are attempting to interact timing is involed. It doesn't matter if O'Sensei belived it or not. You can't grab my wrist if its not there to grab. You can't puch me if I'm not in a position to punch.
Presuming that I wish to punch or grab anyone, anywhere, at a given time. (Don't get me worng, I will and can, and often with great effect, but not because I wish it, but because that is where things sort of lead to.) As I am not attempting to direct any particular sequence of events or a trained combination of techniques, I am freed from the chess-master's limitation in forecasting sequential contingency, a problem Don's next bit of discussion illustrates.
Don Magee wrote:
Working my ippon seoinage throw in judo. In order to have a good chance at completing this throw, you need to get your attack to press in on you (push back twoards you and make a forward motion). To do this, the easiest way is to push him and get him to push back. But if you simply try the throw as soon as he pushes back he has a good chance of countering or defending. You have to lead his mind into thinking that push is where he wants to be so he will commit to it.
You are attempting to "have a good chance at completing" ippon seionage by "getting" the attack to press in. This is not accepting the attack as presented, but trying to set up a means of manipulating it in advance . This will lose musubi to begin with by conflicting with the attacker's intent.

If the technique it presents itself, well and good, but I am increasingly working at being busy with the connection itself, not in trying to set up the technique I "hope" in advance will present itself. In short I am trying to break the training paradigm in my training. Sparring will not necessarily do this if you merely repeat the training paradigm faster and harder. The setting up, from a strategic standpoint gives away too much information, delaying victory.

From the standpoint of musubi, whatever presents itself as things play out is mine to exploit since I am no longer bound by push-me-pull-you contingency created by a set temporal sequence of a priori techniques or combinations. And thus also the preeminent aspect of ukemi in gaining and maintaining this connection.
Don Magee wrote:
Hesitate for a second and you will lose kazushi as your oppenent has time to recover. In the case of seoinage, if you don't enter right, if you dont turn quick enough, if you didn't break his balance properly, and if you didn't break his grip properly you will find yourself in a very bad spot very quickly as you just turned your back to a guy who is standing there with a good position and balance.
All very good training aids for given technique, but very poor in terms of allowing the strategic strength that exists in aikido to fully flower.


Erick Mead
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