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Old 07-16-2006, 10:45 AM   #215
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 975
United_States
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Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Thats the best part about MMA, I have never fought a guy who used the 'same moves' I used ......
Yes, but you said you had leanred to apply the techniqeus against someone using "the same thing." A mild hair splitting.

Quote:
Maybe your culture doesn't have a big wrestler base, but around here most men where either football players or wrestlers. I work at a college and most kids I talk to and ask about martial arts have some wrestling training or football training, both of these types tend to take it to the ground in a matcho bar brawl (as opposed to a robbery, or some other kind of altercation).
Ahem Living as I do in the middle of New York State, I live in the same "culture" you do. There's no need to get snide about it.

Quote:
..... I have done the Traditional route, I have a black belt in TKD, I've studied other arts for various lenghts of time, I have spent time in RBSD enviorments, I spent a long time in krav maga. However, none of this did me any good against mildy trained sport fighters. I spent a long time just getting taken apart by them, I couldnt deal with their stirkes, I couldn't deal with their clinch, I couldnt deal with the takedowns, I couldn't deal with them on the ground. Hell I wasn't even in a good position to eye gouge. I had never been choked the way they were choking me, I had never been hit hard like they were hitting me. I never experianced trying to block a punch only to have my own hand punch me in the face. I had never been picked up 4 feet off the ground while trying to stop a takedown with elbows and slamed so hard I had to go home and lay down.

Now its different. When a guy comes in, I see the old me. I see a guy who is not prepared for what he is about to get into. I see them go though the same trials I had to deal with, and I see a lot of them make excuses as to why their training wasn't enough. I've had guys tell me they could of broken my fingers to escape, or eye gouged me, or grion striked me, etc. Except for when I tell them to give it a try, it never seems to work. Because I am used to maintaining control over people who are trying their best to hurt me. Their fumbling and spazzing out really doesn't bother me anymore, their pressure point's, knuckles on the ribs, etc dont bother me. Right now I have someone's thumb print bruised into my arm from fridays training. It didn't stop him from getting choked out.

The best part is none of these techniques are new, none of them are missing from traditional arts. In japanese juijitsu, bjj, and judo you will find the same hip toss, the same armbar, the same triangle choke, and the same wrist lock. The difference is the experaince in learning how to use these things against someone who isn't letting you use them. Sure you can learn how to use them without this type of training, but this kind of training is more efficent, and has a higher percentage chance of producing people who can use the techniques. If I go into a traditional martial arts school I would expect to find a few black belts that can give me a run for my money in sparing. If I go into a few mma gyms I expect to find a lot of people (at least more than 3/4ths of the people there) that can give me a run for my money. The reaons are simple. Most of them will be in better physical shape though harder training. Most of them will have learned different ways and methods for using the technqiues taught though resistant sparing, and most of them will be used to the level of resistance I am apply and thus keep their cardio under control and their adrenaline under control.

My thoughs on this are simple. If I can't handle a random amature mma guy in the ring, I can't expect to handle people in the street where there are more dangerous variables.
Well, good for you. Now, let me ask you something: Who came up with MMA? Who founded the straight blast gym? It didn't come from nowhere. Can we agree that it represents an individual's thought processes?

Well, the same is true of every other martial art in the world. Just as the SBG is not just about different techniques but a certain approahc, and someone who opens an affiliate of the straight blast gym is propgating that approach. If you don't do that, can you say you are? Not honestly. With me so far?

And that is what I have been talking about. When you say Aikido people can just change their training methods and not lose anything else, can they? If what training methods you can and can't use is part of what makes Aikido what it is, then changing the methods does change things. Yes, it could "destroy" it. You would still have the name "Aikido," but lose what it is that makes Aikido unique.

Now, that doesn't meant the "I-method" will destroy Aikido. However, you will recall Aikido is rather picky about issues like whether you spar, how much resistance to offer, etc. IF those points are part of what makes Aikido what it is, then if you break those rules, it may not be Aikido anymore. And this is important because teaching martial arts is about teaching the techniques and preserving and propogating the system. That's where things get hairy. So the question of whether to change training methods goes from being something "silly" to very important! Yes, there are some people who teach Aikido and closer to what you suggest. But that is response to those issues. They made their call.

You've put the traditional route behind you and that's ok. I'm not going to tell you what you're doing is wrong; at the end of the day, if you're happy with it, that's the most important thing. But the point I want to get a across is the traditional methods aren't the way they are for no good reason. It's because you're learning the thought process of the person who founded that system. If you diverge from that thought process, you are not doing that system anymore. The same is true for any approach, Aikido, Judo, SBG, whatever. You can teach joint locks and throws any way you want. You want to teach Aikido, there are more considerations. They're there like an elephant in your living room. You can try and ignore it but they're still there. I don't see how it could be otherwise.
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