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Old 06-24-2006, 05:20 PM   #1047
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Brian Cates wrote:
Good points about it's more important to take the attacker's balance than anything else.

And it's quite true that nothing hits harder than the ground, as a poster stated above.

The biggest problem many critics of Aikido have with it is that they never get to 'see' it pulled off an an untrained person.

If a really good Aikidoka pulled a full power, no-holding-back-whatsoever breath throw on an attacker who came at him full speed, full power (which is the only kind of 'demo' these critics would accept as authentic) and that attacker is untrained in ukemi, the chances of the attacker getting seriously injured are greatly multiplied.

We live in a culture where people sue others for minor bumps and bruises. What will happen if some guy gets thrown hard with a shiho-nage, lands wrong and separates his shoulder?

The fact is, by it's very devastating nature, Aikido has to be done slowly and gently with untrained people, this is why all the 'hey man show me your aikido - gee that's weak and slow' criticisms are missing the point.

Not that many people are competent enough to do many Aikido techniques on someone else full power with no holding back to begin with.

First they have to have the technical skill and the physical ability and then on top of that they need a highly trained uke to practice with.

Most Aikidoka don't reach that level, either technically, physically, or training-partner wise.

When you are involved in a martial art involving manipulation of joints, joint locks, and throws that send the other person's entire body flying through the air, there are going to be plenty of checks and balances before you reach a level where you can go full speed, all out, holding nothing back on a training partner who is skilled enough to take your high-level full power Aikido and get up unhurt.

So instances where a BJJ asks an Aikidoka to 'prove' to him that Aikido would work since the BJJ guy has no training in ukemi, if the Aikidoka accepts this challenge, mentally he realizes he's got an untrained person here, going full power and all out is automatically out of bounds.

Face it, a martial art that teaches it's students at the highest levels to take an attacker's entire body and slam it to the floor with incredible force or to lock up joints and take people down hard doesn't translate itself well to "Let me go half speed here and not really go full power so I don't hurt you, Ok?"

Unless it two Aikidoka who have reached a high level of proficiency at both the technique and receiving ukemi, there will always be holding back, not going as fast or as hard as they really could.

And when Aikidoka try to 'prove' to untrained people who have no ukemi skill that Aikido 'works' the first thing these people sense is that.........the Aikidoka is holding back.

manofaiki
I just wanted to point out that everyone I know who trains in bjj learns forward and backwards rolls, front, side, and back breakfalls. They can take any throw you want to put on them. In fact I've seen bjj guys that take falls better that judo guys (Because they dont concentrate so much on not landing in ippon but rather landing in a good defendable position). Yet, I constantly hear from my judo instructor and my aikido instructor about how they dont know how to fall. (Which I find funny because they compliment my falls, and the guys at my bjj club fall just as well as I do). Maybe this is exclusive to my club, but I doubt it. Especially with all the ex-judo guys I see at bjj competitions. They are not going to take a nice looking roll out of your attack, but if you throw them, you can expect a good breakfall and continued action until you get them to tap.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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