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Old 12-03-2001, 11:54 PM   #19
Peter Goldsbury
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Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,219
Originally posted by jimvance
Perfect Mikey. Thank you.

If people are really wondering what lines I am wondering (not wandering I hope) on, look in Donn Draeger's book "Classical Budo" for the chapter called "The Method". That is what got me thinking about a lot of this.

Jim Vance
Yes. I know the Draeger chapter, and there is also much interesting material in writings by Eugen Herrigel, whom Draeger cites in his chapter.

However, I stand by the remarks I made earlier. I agree that Draeger contrasts 'training' and 'practice', but he equates the latter with 'mastery' (on p.61). I very much doubt that the average aikidoist has in mind such a distinction.

There is another matter which Draeger emphasises in his chapter and this has not been mentioned in this thread. Draeger is attempting to describe a very close relationship between teacher and student, of which probably the best example is seen in a traditional koryu. Like Herrigel, he describes it largely in Zen terms.

I would not want to say that such a relationship is rare in aikido, but perhaps it is more difficult to achieve in a large dojo run by one instructor. But if you do achieve such a close relationship with a teacher, then I do not think it really matters whether you describe it as training or practice, keiko or renshu (and it is curious that neither of these Japanese terms occurs in the margins of Draeger's chapter).

I know at least one eminent aikido teacher, living in the US, who said to me once that until a student had found his teacher, aikido had not really started.

Yours sincerely,

P A Goldsbury
Hiroshima, Japan
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