Darren Kennedy wrote:
I understand what you are saying Chris but try and maintain any of the locks for any period of time without having to break ukes arm . The locks themselves are not effective unless you break ukes arm .....
In Aikido: The Way of Harmony
, John Stevens how Shirata Rinjiro Sensei was challenged by people in the 1930s (I think -- the book is at home and I am not), and "more than one arm was broken." Shirata Sensei attributed this to his opponents resisting him. So you can't say they have no effect at all.
So there IS a way to make it work, but you probably don't want to break someone's arm if you're just horsing around with them. But why do you want to maintane it for "any length of time"? BJJ players don't get someone in a submission and hold there for hours; they (should) hold just until the person taps out. The same is true in Aikido practice -- you aply pressure until uke taps. In a law enforcement context, you get the person face down on the ground (like most Aikido pins aim for) and get the hands behind his back and cuff him. Again, no major "length of time."
...... I'm only trying to look at the effectiveness of aikido on a personal level and this was one point I came up against where I had to question. Like I said in my first post, try it with a person that is non compliant with what you you are doing and you'll find the lock does'nt work .Yes if you cooperate they work obviously , mainly because uke is passsive , but with an uncooprative uke they have many ways out of your pin . NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO
When I had just started karate, I sparred with some friends and they kept doing things that confounded me, mainly low kicks and fakes. Does that mean it "doesn't work"? That never occurred to me. Instead, I learned to watch for what they did. In other words, I took it as a leanring experience.
Instead of pronnouncing, "Aikido doesn't work unless uke cooperates," especailly since it seems to be within the context of horsing around with some BJJ guys, learn to watch what they do. How do they get out of your pin? What can you do to sector off those possibilities? This isn't going to happen overnight. But persevering in Aikido while bearing in mind what your friends do is probably more productive then just writing off the whole art. And remember, Aikido is one of the systems law enforcement uses to restrain perps who are most definitely not coopertating. Food for thought.