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Old 03-19-2006, 08:55 PM   #95
Misogi-no-Gyo
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 498
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Re: final lock doesn't work

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
I'm with Chris on this one - my opinion.
I am sure most people who consider themselves to be "grounded" would as well.
Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
It's true, there are multiple centers, but when you see these centers affecting other centers (such that a majority of the opponents body comes under your control - however you want to phrase that) in Aikido waza one has to take into account that the various physical properties (inertia, centrifugal force, gravity, etc.) of motion are playing a huge part in this type of control. Without the physical properties of motion playing this huge role, as when someone has already stopped moving because they are laying prone on the ground, the amount of centers that you can affect from any single center goes down significantly.
There must be an old adage that would work well here, it probably goes something along the lines of, "If you say that you may be able to if you try, then you have the hope that someday you may indeed succeed, However, if you say that you can not, you have already proven yourself correct." While both may be true, I do not consider them equal.
Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
This is why one feels more controlled as Nikyo is being applied than when one has taken ukemi and is sitting or laying at the bottom of the Nikyo motion - where motion has stopped.
This should not be the case at all. What is in effect before contact is no more or less in effect at the beginning or the end of the technique.
Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
This is all compounded when one has stopped and laying on the ground prone. Why? Because it becomes next to impossible to mechanically control the two major axes of motion (i.e. the spine and the hips) from a single center (e.g. the elbow as in Ikkyo) when the action has stabilized somewhat. The forces necessary to align the centers, such that one lock can lock several other centers, are absent; so then is the necessary restriction on alternate alignments, so then is the capacity to use one to control another.
This is a great observation. I like your choice of words ("...next to impossible...") leaving room for at least the possibility of something beyond what you have already achieved or can imagine. However it merely indicates that there must be another level that needs to be achieved in order to obtain such control. While I only have elementary ideas as to what needs to be done to accomplish this as Nage, I have been on the receiving end enough times to know that I am still only playing in a sandbox while there are jets flying over my head.
Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
This is why BJJ is so great on the ground - you learn how to move one or both of these axes; you learn how to control them in someone else; and you learn how to use them against someone else.
Well, as it is ju-jitsu, we would all imagine that to be the case.
Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
Aikido "pins," in my opinion, are better seen as setups for breaks, and/or holds from which you can strike (armed or unarmed), and/or exercises meant to develop a sense of grounding/kokyu, etc. One should not expect to pin anyone - in complete control - with standard Aikido Kihon Waza pins (in my opinion).
I think it may be more precise if you said, "I do not expect to pin anyone - in complete control - with standard Aikido Kihon Waza pins ...whatever that may be



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