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Old 11-14-2001, 01:44 PM   #11
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 355
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Re: interesting III...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon C Strauss
Howdy,
Why don't you tell me what you found "debatable" and we'll see if I agree or not.
:-)
I have a few of my own ideas concerning this, most of them having to do with Tohei Sensei's desire to show the importance of Ki training, but I've never been taght the official party line. I liked what Thalib had to say though (and he said it very well, too).
Peace,
JCS
Rocky Mountain Ki Society
KAMI : Hello, Jon!

It's not that I thought Thalib's post was good or not. As Thalib himself said, he's not a ki-aikidoka, so I was asking for anyone from Ki Society who might know the answers. It does surprise me that, up to know, no one came forward. Even you is the first to admit you only have ideas and that you don't know "the party line" concerning that.
Anyway, the points in Thalib's post that I found debatable (not necessarily wrong) are :

[QUOTE from Thalib] In classical jujutsu schools, there are 3 levels of techniques (not grades)[/b][/quote]


UBALDO : Quite the contrary, there are many levels and titles from one school to another(Cho Mokuruku, Kaiden, Menkyo Kaiden, etc...);


[QUOTE from Thalib] Taijutsu is easier to grade, it could be based on form/technique only (physical side). But for Ki development it's not so easy.[/b][/quote]


UBALDO : Taijutsu in Koryu has the same levels of certification(Okuden, etc...). There seems to be no reason for using it only for Ki Development;


[QUOTE from Thalib] One could be a shodan but still exist in the shoden level. This could mean that the shodan is mostly technique based. Many aikidoka (even yudansha) exist on this level.[/b][/quote]


UBALDO : Shoden means first level, more or less the same as Shodan. There seems to be no great difference in that.

[QUOTE from Thalib] With ki no kenkyukai (ki society), not shin-shin-toitsu aikido, technique is not actually needed. The techniques are usually used as a way to test the ki. So in this society, one could understand ki very well but know very little about aikido techniques. [/b][/quote]


UBALDO : There seems to me there is a great confusion between Ki no Kenkyukai (the organization for spreading of Tohei's form of Aikido) and the names Ki-Society, Ki-Aikido and ShinShin Toitsu Aikido representing the same thing : Tohei's Aikido. One is the organization, the others the art. If understood this way, Ki no Kenkyukai would not be exclusively "for Ki Development", without concern for Ki-Aikido. Of course, Ki Development could be taught WITHOUT Ki-Aikido but I believe that is not the only concern of the organization (Ki no Kenkyukai).

[QUOTE from Thalib] Since ki no kenkyukai is not actually aikido, it can't be graded through the kyu-dan system. The only system that could be applied, is based on one's understanding of ki.[/b][/quote]


UBALDO : Again, Ki no Kenkyukai is not apart from Aikido, it's just the name of the Organization and as I said before, there's no reason it can't use the Kyu/Dan system, "because it's based on understanding of Ki"...


[QUOTE from Thalib] Well... I hope someone form Ki no Kenkyukai or someone from Shin-Shin-toitsu Aikido, or any of Tohei Sensei's student could verify my analysis...[/b][/quote]


UBALDO : I hope so too...After all, not only Thalib but myself as well could be wrong...
Best

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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