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Old 02-21-2006, 02:56 PM   #59
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 565
Re: Regrading grabs in Aikido...

Hi Chris,

Chris Hein wrote:
Lots of people have differnt oppinions about how often fights go to the ground, in most of the fights I've been involved in, someone ended up on the ground, usually with someone else on top of them whailing away, but I believe what you say, and I'm sure a great number of fights never end up on the ground.
I suspect it is, in part, what one is used to and how one looks at fighting. The one time (in a real fight) that I ended up on the ground I realized very quickly that I didn't want to stay there because I was also being attacked with a lead pipe by the persons friend. Messy stuff, reality.

As for the kihon waza training fundamental principles, I believe that's the definition of kihon waza, but other unarmed styles train their kihon from the most common positions they will be in, in a fight, i.e. the clinch, or from a common hold (headlock, bear hug etc.), they do this to insure that their practitioners are comfortable fighting in the positions they will most certainly be in. It's strange that Aikido doesn't do the same.
Some schools do more of this than others, for sure.

These are nice points, and correct. But bridging the distance to the core is the sole reason a grappler would grab your wrist. If a wrestler grabs my wrist and I start to apply a nikkyo, the wrestler will just pull his hand away, his goal is to get to my body, not the arm, the arm is simply a means "bridging the gap". However if I have a knife, and you grab my wrist to try and keep me from stabbing you, and I apply nikkyo, you cannot simply pull your hand away, if you do you will be stabbed.
Nikkyo is too often about pain, which is a distration from the real study. I'd let go also. My training goal with a proper nikkyo is that my partner should not be ABLE to let go. If you start (to pull another thread in) from the perspective of taking your partner's balance, they should not be able to let go at all, at least in the form of Aikido I am currently trying to study.

Aikido's methods for avoiding wrist grabs has to do with a need for uke to keep the grab, you will often times see Aikido throws where the uke wouldn't have to fall if he simply let go of the hand. When I first saw these throws I thought they were silly, as I would much rather let go of your hand then have you throw me!! but then when I realized that letting go of your hand means I'm going to get cut, it made allot more since to me as to why someone would what to hold on the a wrist for so long.
If the Aikido training is such that you have a choice to let go or not be thrown, I'm not very interested in that sort of training or technique, although I confess to having indulged in it for some time while trying to figure out what the heck I was supposed to be learning.

I believe that if uke can let go once they've grabbed, than tori has already failed. Not that I can DO this very often, but this is my training goal, no matter how I am grabbed or struck.


Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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