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Old 02-21-2006, 02:34 PM   #58
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Re: Regrading grabs in Aikido...

Tarik, nice post.
Lots of people have differnt oppinions about how often fights go to the ground, in most of the fights I've been involved in, someone ended up on the ground, usually with someone else on top of them whailing away, but I believe what you say, and I'm sure a great number of fights never end up on the ground.

As for the kihon waza training fundamental principles, I believe that's the definition of kihon waza, but other unarmed styles train their kihon from the most common positions they will be in, in a fight, i.e. the clinch, or from a common hold (headlock, bear hug etc.), they do this to insure that their practitioners are comfortable fighting in the positions they will most certainly be in. It's strange that Aikido doesn't do the same.

"I also happen to believe that Aikido IS simple. Not easy, but simple, and that being human, we often make such things much more complex than need to be in our attempt to understand depth and difficulty."

Nicely said.


"How do you think grapplers work? Not every grappler (especially the smart ones) is going to shoot for your legs in a real world confrontation? Wrist-grabs and shoulder grabs are also an excellent means of limb control/displacement if you're trying to bridge the distance to get close enough for core body work (through different types of grips, clinching and hooking) -- especially when someone's also trying to hit you back :grin:

Or better yet . . . ask a collegiate wrestler to demonstrate one-on-one or two-on-one wrist control.

Judo players? Give 'em a shoulder grab and any change in the relationship of your shoulders-to-hips will be enough for them to send you on a trip (yes, I know, bad pun).

Granted, plenty of wrist/shoulder grabs I've seen from an aikido perspective treat the grab as the end-all of the attack, rather than a transitional position to manipulate, close or strike (or club or stab, if we're also factoring in the weapons paradigm)."

These are nice points, and correct. But bridging the distance to the core is the sole reason a grappler would grab your wrist. If a wrestler grabs my wrist and I start to apply a nikkyo, the wrestler will just pull his hand away, his goal is to get to my body, not the arm, the arm is simply a means "bridging the gap". However if I have a knife, and you grab my wrist to try and keep me from stabbing you, and I apply nikkyo, you cannot simply pull your hand away, if you do you will be stabbed. Aikido's methods for avoiding wrist grabs has to do with a need for uke to keep the grab, you will often times see Aikido throws where the uke wouldn't have to fall if he simply let go of the hand. When I first saw these throws I thought they were silly, as I would much rather let go of your hand then have you throw me!! but then when I realized that letting go of your hand means I'm going to get cut, it made allot more since to me as to why someone would what to hold on the a wrist for so long.

-Chris Hein
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