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Old 12-04-2005, 09:11 AM   #12
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
Re: Kaesu

Joshua Reyer wrote:
Well, I can't say what every style does with the wrist, but every style I've seen turns the kote over.
My intention wasn't to get into a technical discussion, but I can see may need to happen in order to clarify my point.

I used to train in styles that do this technique exactly as you described; I no longer do. I think the "turning over" is the wrong place to focus. I believe that emphasizing the "turning over" leads people to think that they need to crank on the kote; this alone will generally not work without pain, threat of injury, or brainwashing.

The way I do it, "turning over" the kote is a byproduct of the technique. I don't turn over uke's kote; I set up a situation in which he pulls back and turns it over himself, then I follow, returning it to him. The key is not in the turning over of the kote, but rather in "returning" of it to a triangulated point just outside the little toe or heel, depending upon circumstances.

Try doing kotegaeshi with only your index fingers... the exercise has proved enlightening to me. It's nearly impossible to use excessive force or grab when doing it this way. It makes it easier, actually.

Ultimately, as speakers and translators of Japanese, I think we need to be very careful about attributing English meanings to Japanese words. Additionally, the way one phrase is translated into English does not necessarily hold true to how others should be handled.

For example, I have no real problem with translating 軍配を返す as "turn over (the) fan," although I'd probably choose to say "turn around (the) fan" instead. (Actually, I'd most likely translate it as "the referee signalled the start of the match.") I would not, however, choose to translate 図書館員に本を返す as "turn over the book to the librarian." I would, instead, say "return the book to the librarian," since the emphasis isn't on giving it to them, but on giving it back to them. Additionally, I don't have to physically turn the book end-over-end to accomplish my task.

To me, the hardest part of translating Japanese into English is not the Japanese; it's the English. My boss once laughed at me for translating 敵は本能寺にあり as "the enemy is in Honnou Temple," instead of simply "ulterior motive." It reminded me of the Star Trek:TNG episode where Picard meets a race of people who speak entirely in historical references. Good times.

Of course, Ki Society calls the technique "koteoroshi": "fore-arm take-down". Looks much the same, though.
Looks can be greatly deceiving. There's a reason they changed the name, and I agree with it. From what I know of the reason behind renaming the technique, the emphasis needed to change to get people away from cranking.

I personally wouldn't call koteoroshi a "take-down" but rather a "drop." To my ears, "take-down" has a significantly different flavor of meaning than "drop" does. I do believe that all it takes is to drop an inch (or less) at the right time and with the right target to make the technique work beautifully. Any more is too much.

Your understanding and use of the Japanese language in budo appears to be slightly different than mine. Perhaps that has caused our understand of technique to be a little different as well. Or perhaps it is the other way around. My understanding of the language has strongly colored my understanding of technique and vice-versa.

Well, I just wanted to provide some of my knowledge; I wasn't looking to steal anyone's thunder.
I have none to steal. I was inviting you to write articles.

Last edited by mjhacker : 12-04-2005 at 09:24 AM.
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