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Old 11-15-2005, 10:11 PM   #168
Erick Mead
 
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: Aikido and being Christian

Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
Jun,
you might as well move this thread, as you seem to be threatening my posts, because they cut to the chase, while letting others' pass because they glorify aikido and hold no threat or consequence...they are meaningless ramblings.
Ah, Jun ... please let us explore this osae-waza a little more thoroughly before we tap it out. We shall keep him to topic.
Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
Erick, you said: "Jesus describes the pregnant tension of human existence, waiting expectantly to bear forth either a wonder or a horror." No. Jesus was describing Himself, not a pregnant tension of human existence.
Jesus was a human existence, or had the temptations on the heights and in the Garden meant nothing? Jesus suffered the pains and the joys of existence. He engaged in conflict, and did not shrink from entering directly.
Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
the Bible clearly states that our flesh is dead, because of sin.
Death is death; life is life. Neither is necessarily evil nor necessarily good. Life is to be preferred, but not for the doing of evil, in which case, choose death. On this point, Christianity and Budo are truly in one accord.
Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
"Else the Incarnation ("enfleshing" "embodiment") would be irrelevant." We agree! Jesus had to take on our "costume" as it were.
On this we find a further heresy, Monophysitism, or Nestorianism, also common among various stripes of gnosticism: the belief that Jesus was truly divine but not truly human. This is not the orthodox Nicene Creed.
Compare OSensei's Doka No. 19 in Budo Renshu (tr. Bieri& Mabuchi):

Sincerity
More and more with all your heart
Practice and perfect
The essential Unity of the Two Worlds
Come to know its truth

This has much in common with Christian attitudes. It accepts the identity of the Human and Divine (which Christ personifies) without disturbing their proper order, neither debasing the divine nor unduly elevating the human.
Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
Morihei Ueshiba proclaimed that it was the time for training, not the time to put our lives into the hands of Jesus, or any other teacher. This is exactly the opposite of christianity. (Jun, I am showing the differences here...what is the problem, exactly?)
Ah, but it must be a TRUE difference, and for which the assumption stated is not true. O-Sensei said no such thing. What is temporal existence for if not for training? Why not just speak the magic words and then stand in front of a train, thus assured of immortality? (seventy virgins anyone?). Because that is also a perverted desire. The thing we were put here to learn about and for which we fell from our innocence: the knowledge of good AND evil. "O happy fault of Adam, that gained for us so great a Redeeemer." We are engaged in a far greater purpose than recovering simple, ignorant innocence, and which end is not yet known to anyone.
The body teaches the soul and the soul instructs the body. On this tradition, Christian teaching and AIkido are also in one accord. Salvation does not enter into it on this point.
Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
So... Faith is not enough, a little sprinkling is in order? Waterfall misogi perhaps? The point being that human temporal existence is not superfluous in the divine plan. Training, effort is required, not for our salvation (which, begin given freely even at great cost to our Redeemer, is perhaps not even the most important thing about Christian teaching), but to fulfill our ultimate purpose in being here.
Quote:
Matthew Materazzi wrote:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:3-8) ...Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." (John 6:27-29)
"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind." What is it to believe in Him? To say magic words? I think not. Teach as he taught. Do as he did. Be not afraid. O-Sensei was hardly perfect. But did O-Sensei, knowingly or not, strive to live in imitation of Christ, trying to fulfill a selfless devotion to the good of his fellow men? I find it difficult not
to believe that.

I beg Jun's continued patience to work through Matt's rhetoric. He has not yet learned to preach the unknown god to the Athenians.

Cordially,
Erick Mead
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