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Old 09-16-2005, 01:38 AM   #31
Dirk Hanss
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Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Re: Poll: How important is "being martially effective" in your aikido training?

Shannon Frye wrote:
Let me begin by saying that Im new here, and have no desire to ruffle any feathers. I have respect for Aikidoka, and any art that someone takes the time to dedicate practice to.

By comment / observation is this: Why is it that, when asked/confronted with the practical application of Aikido (combat/brawl/fist fight / "on the street" / "in real life" / whatever you want to call it), that the answers turn from physical to philosophical? Running backs that use tenkan, or "imagining a victory within yourself" are very colorful responses, but I don't think they address the answer.
Mostly it is not philosophical, but psychological/practical. If you feel better and are more self-confident, you might get out of critical situations, before it comes to "non-evadable". And sometimes it is very practical: Facing a bicycle crash against a wall - oh, I was not good enough in my aikido and in my risk management, as 20 seconds before it was avoidable - and being able afterwards: "it was not a demonstration-like ukemi, but I am safe and not injured. Unfortunately my bike is lost" is my best "real life" effectiveness example.
I think that most people who have an interest in trying aikido (or beginners) want the answer to "If I get punched, will this work?". Not "Well, aikido will make you more aware", or "Aikido will allow you to win in your mind" or "Aikido will teach you to avoid that situation". I can "imagine" a lot of victory in my head, but my body will still receive a butt whoopin if I don't defend properly.
In my first aikido lesson I was told: "You are learning wide range techniques with a co-operative partner and don't expect being able to use them in a real conflict. They work, even in a narrow elevator, but it might take 12 years or longer to be able to apply them like this!" Then sensei demonstrated some very short-cut iriminage, nikyo, etc. None of us 20, not even the punk left classes. all turned up for at least the whole beginners' course.
I had 6 years practice of karate before. I joined karate for self-defense purpose. It never had to work in "real life" and I was not sure, if it would have worked other than running away.
I did not want to learn aikido for beat-up purposes. I just was fascinated by the contradictionary combination of Eastern (martial) art and peaceful philosophy. And I preferred not having competition - so it was obviously not a Shodokan Aikido school
Having crosstrained a bit, I can see the benefit/disadvantages of each art. TKD don't work from a seat position, karate may not work up close, jui jitsu is ineffective from far away, Brazillian JJ is not good for defending against a group, and so forth.

Can anyone provide a physical (non philisophical , no football players or mental internal victory) answer for what advantages / disadvantages aikido would offer someone in a non-evadable, nowhere to run, IT's ON situation?
Take your time and read the other threads related to this topic. You will find a lot of examples. Probably those, which did not work, are not told, because they (the aikidoka) do not want to tell, they felt they were too junior to do it right, they left aikido or are not participating in this forum, or they just died.
I have also an example of my own. Althought I moved slowly, the guy was not able to hit me - 3 to 4 tries. Then another guy stopped us (me?). But the kicks and punches did not proof proper MA education and that fool was drunken.
None of the example are proofs. It really depends on you and your training (dojo, sensei) etc.
My believe is that aikido works, but it is not your first choice, if you just need a fast learnable effective self-defense art without any of this philosophical background.
But all the other arts won't work after a few month and at the end all of them - at least the DO - are different way to the same "Mount Fuji". Not only philosophically: If you see a karate self-defence demonstration by a yondan, it looks quite similar to what a judo, taekwondo or hapkido yondan would show. They all use punches (elbow), low kicks and throws for self-defense purposes. As the high-level demonstrations are mostly only at about yondan level, you still will see the difference at the end. Some use a final (lethal) punch, others a pin or bone breaking technique.

You want the fastest dojo/style for real life self defence?
They need to have daily classes (morning, lunch break and 2 in the evening), you should not see injured participants or being told about absence due to injuries. But they need martial awareness and they should not go for championships, as those apply their training to the championship rules and not to the "street". Of those you just have to avoid the 90% boasters, bluffers, and cheaters and you got it.

Kind regards Dirk
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