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senshincenter · 07-30-2005, 09:32 PM

Thanks for the reply.

That's an interesting way of rephrasing the original question Peter. I can see how we can and might even want to understand what I was asking in that way. It makes great sense from a certain perspective. However, if in doing so we are opening the door to the dismissals of the person that just wants training to be an athletic endeavor - one that can exist outside of some very obvious and intimate body/mind connections - or if we are opening the door to the efforts of the person that wants to partition deep reflection, contemplation, and/or introspection to the jurisdiction of the licensed therapist only, then I think we might want to leave the question as it is. Or maybe we could re-state it this way(s): To what extent can or should a spiritual tradition include the utilization of negative emotions? To what extent can we avoid our negative emotions without avoiding some very real and deep aspects of our inner selves? To what extent can we remain overly positive without simultaneously engineering the need for self-delusion?

That said, I think the danger of addressing our negative side in dojo that are incapable of supporting such efforts but have deluded themselves otherwise is a very real problem - one that has to be considered relevant to this topic. Even then, however, it would seem that a lack of shame is allowing such a dojo to delude itself in terms of what it is capable of doing and what it is not. It seems a lack of shame is preventing such a dojo from seeing how much destruction it is actually causing, how much alienation and neuroses it is actually reinforcing, how much spiritual immaturity it is cultivating for the sake of its own unchecked will to power, etc. Such a thing cannot be supported - and I hope to make it clear that my questions are not meant to be understood as such support. I just wish to make a space between what can go wrong and what is wrong - so that we can find another option outside of the status quo and the possible doom that may be surrounding us.

Thanks for the reply,
david

07-30-2005, 09:32 PM	#10
senshincenter Dojo: Senshin Center Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,474 Offline	Re: Does Budo require a sense of shame? Thanks for the reply. That's an interesting way of rephrasing the original question Peter. I can see how we can and might even want to understand what I was asking in that way. It makes great sense from a certain perspective. However, if in doing so we are opening the door to the dismissals of the person that just wants training to be an athletic endeavor - one that can exist outside of some very obvious and intimate body/mind connections - or if we are opening the door to the efforts of the person that wants to partition deep reflection, contemplation, and/or introspection to the jurisdiction of the licensed therapist only, then I think we might want to leave the question as it is. Or maybe we could re-state it this way(s): To what extent can or should a spiritual tradition include the utilization of negative emotions? To what extent can we avoid our negative emotions without avoiding some very real and deep aspects of our inner selves? To what extent can we remain overly positive without simultaneously engineering the need for self-delusion? That said, I think the danger of addressing our negative side in dojo that are incapable of supporting such efforts but have deluded themselves otherwise is a very real problem - one that has to be considered relevant to this topic. Even then, however, it would seem that a lack of shame is allowing such a dojo to delude itself in terms of what it is capable of doing and what it is not. It seems a lack of shame is preventing such a dojo from seeing how much destruction it is actually causing, how much alienation and neuroses it is actually reinforcing, how much spiritual immaturity it is cultivating for the sake of its own unchecked will to power, etc. Such a thing cannot be supported - and I hope to make it clear that my questions are not meant to be understood as such support. I just wish to make a space between what can go wrong and what is wrong - so that we can find another option outside of the status quo and the possible doom that may be surrounding us. Thanks for the reply, david
	David M. Valadez Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.