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Old 07-27-2005, 04:13 PM   #98
Kevin Leavitt
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Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Re: ?? Exaggeration in Aikido ??

Lots of talk about "real". Real situation, real world.. The problem with real world is that it can mean different things to different people depending on their perspective.

Jean wrote:

Kevin:"Real world" misconception: give me just one single example of real world situation where Aikido does not have an answer...except for getting whacked with a pipe in back of the head
AIkido has no is a simply a DO and WAY and training methodology. It is not framed around providing scenario based solution sets. Therefore, it is entirely possible to say it has a technique for every situation to it has none. Did I ever say that Aikido was invalid? or did I say "there are better ways to learn self defense? There is a huge difference. Pipes to the back of the head are a great example of reality. also guns.

This is exactly the reason why I find training in MA for self defense kinda pointless. I believe the physical, mental, and spiritual elements you get out of them are far greater benefits than the few things you get out of self defense. But there are strategies and situation in which they are useful as part of a spectrum of defense...say for soldiers and police officers.

In regard to "real life, bets are off": I know when real life hits, it's different than the dojo. However, the dojo should compensate for that. Amongst other things, as mentioned earlier, the techniques are broader to compensate for how we move when hit with the fight/flight.
Not really sure what you mean by this, but you are correct "all bets are usually off' which is why most of us are saying there are many others out there that do not fight from the same paradigm you have grown comfortable with in your training. It is worth exploring them to discover the strengths and weaknesses of your training. It is amazing what you learn. Which is why I advocate cross training...not to learn or confuse yourself with new techniques, but to see new challenges and paradigms.

might be crazy, but I don't think Ueshiba and all of his great students would of made it as far as they did if this stuff didn't work in the real world. Just reading Shioda, that guy's been in plenty real life, life threatening situations.
Again, don't know what your definition of real world is...but I believe you will find that they never professed to use "aikido" for "real" only themselves as a fighter made up of the totality of their life experiences. Which included many other arts.

I don't claim that you will not take a strike in the process. I'm just saying that fighting isn't like it is in the movies...and the UFC isn't realistic.

Always an interesting debate. Don't want to get into a discussion about the UFC being real or not. It is a sport, but what isn't realistic about it? It gets pretty darn close without the parameters of multiple opponents, the ability to disengage and run, and weapons..which I admit is a huge bunch of parameters...but it is still pretty darn realistic for what it is.

Also interesting that you limited my ability in the first quote to leave out ambush techniques such as getting hit by a pipe, which in a sense establishes rules..then turn around and say well UFC isn't real.

My point is there is a spectrum of what reality is..from you can only you never no what he may pull and when. It takes experience, wisdom, and maturity to recognize the futility of arguing about this spectrum and at what point constitutes reality.

If you are focused on the DO...then it really is immaterially what reality is.

IUltimiately, a real fight lasts maybe two minutes. Adrenaline's high. People are scared. It's not hard to get a technique in and walk away.
You make it sound so simple...even the UFC is more challenging than this statement. This situation is EXACTLY how most UFC fights go except you cannot walk away since the cage is closed.

I'd be interested to hear what Reality really is (that is why I typically put quotes around "real word"...cause they are emotional words that mean very little, and can cover a whole lot of territory!

Once you establish reality...then you can benchmark exaggeration!

Until then, we are all simply studying a martial way to peace and harmony and anything that effectively leads to that within the martial context acceptable...anything superflous to that is an exaggeration.

Last edited by Kevin Leavitt : 07-27-2005 at 04:17 PM.
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