Thread: Aikido vs....
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Old 07-20-2005, 11:37 AM   #16
Adam Alexander
Dojo: none currently
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 499
Re: Aikido vs....

Kevin, I think that was a cool post. That's what I'm talking about...It's "my" Aikido. If there's a problem with it, do what you need to solve it. However, none of us really know whether Aikido (the ideal) has the technique, etc. to close the hole...It's just that you haven't seen it and you're finding a solution...Nothing wrong with that--who knows, maybe what you do (new techniques)is Aikido in another form...I don't know, but I'd be a lot happier if everyone specified "my Aikido."

Michael Fooks wrote:
I understand your frustration with such discussions but I think the approach you're taking in your response is flawed.
1. In cases where Aikido seems to be vulnerable to other arts strategies, to simply say it's because no one really undertands aikido well enough to make it work in such circumstances is of limited use. I mean if someone who's been doing it 10 or 20 years hasn't learned enough to defend against someone who has been training in another art for 2 years, it really doesn't matter if that's because aikido is missing something or because the practioners haven't found it yet. Functionally it amounts to the same thing.

2. The "oh but a Master would have been able to..." approach is similarly flawed. No one will take this arguement seriously until there's evidence of a "master" doing what you claim. This is the sort of response that is actually lampooned by the types of people who start these discussions (along with the too deadly to spar argument)

3. It's a huge mistake to assume that eveyone who thinks Aikido is lacking in some areas compared to other arts is There are people who have been studying Aikido for fairly good lengths of time, in depth, who are happy to admit Aikido's limitations. This is as it should be - as discussed in the "False Confidence" thread.

There are better ways to head off these discussions. For example, I have no doubt that on the whole most aikidoka would be beaten by most bjjers in a one on one engagement. There's no need to get into a discussion of which aikido techniques could be used to defeat the bjj'er if only people understood them properly. The more effective and accurate response is - "so what". And this is the point, art vs art discussions are silly because they are talking about an artifical "what if" that is never likely to happen, and is not what we're training for.

"Aikido vs..." discussions can be usefull exercises and help us to examine our art and get a more realistic view of both it's strengths and weaknesses. But I think you're right in that oftentimes people that start them, do so with the intent to criticise Aikido. Which is silly. It's like saying a 4x4 is a crap vehicle because a ferrari will beat it in a time trial. Same thing here. BJJers can take aikidoka down and aikido doesn't have a good defence to a back mount with hooks in? Ok interesting, but that's not what Aikido was designed to deal with so it's no big.

1)Logically speaking, if I recall correctly, this was an appeal to innapropriate authority...namely, yourself. You don't know what Aikido is or isn't.

Since you jumbled a couple conclusions into that paragraph, I'll keep them under 1).

Regarding the last sentence (and the example that precedes it) "functionally," when you ask an "Aikido vs....." question, the ability of any practitioner (or all practitioners) isn't relevant. The question (Aikido vs...) is simplified..."how does the abstract and theoretical concepts as they are exercised in an ideal group of techniques within this art compare to that of the other?" See there? That's not the question,"20yr Aikido student vs. 2yr. BJJ student, etc.?"

So, apparently the "flaw" in my thinking is that you failed to recognize the irrelevance of what you were saying in relation to the original post.

2)Next argument...

Ahhh, another example of my "flawed" reasoning. Well, I can't remember the name of this fallacy...but it's another fallacy.

I'll save both of us the time.

3)Eh, if Ueshiba was saying that he was still learning Aikido before he died, who am I to argue? I just said that noone really knows it all.

In regard to the rest of the post, you may want to read the entire thread.
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