Thread: Defining Kokyu
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:41 AM   #71
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: Defining Kokyu

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
This pic is from the video clip that I have seen - which is different from the one Mike has provided. Still - they are the same kind of demonstration.
I'm not totally sure that's true because it is easier to set up a vertical kokyu demonstration (stopping them from pushing down) than it is to set up a horizontal demonstration. But it's not important enough to go off on another tangent.
Quote:
What Osensei is attempting to convince us of is that the short end of a lever can maintain a mechanical advantage over the long end of the lever and/or that via some kind of "energy' an inanimate object can be structurally rienforced (i.e. a jo should break if the short end of the lever were actually strong enough to maintain a mechanical advantage over the long end of the lever - just stick a jo in a vice and and push on the distal end and see what happens!).
In that case, a weight-lifter is trying to convince us that the laws of gravity don't work, David, according to your logic. I.e., O-Sensei is doing no such thing... he's simply showing the level of his strength, with the assist of a few well-meaning uke's. Insofar as shear-loads on the jo, do the math... that part of your debate won't sustain even mild scrutiny.
Quote:
It is these things Mike that I say go against the law of physics, the Natural world, etc.
Yeah, but we could also say that a weight-lifter lifting a barbell is going against the laws of physics, the Natural world, too. It just ain't nacheral for weights to go up in the air. Heck, while we're liftin' them weights up we might even see an airplane in the sky and lord knows that if we'd been meant to see airplanes we'd a had eyes placed in the top of our head! Land Sakes! (sorry David... I'm cursed with a bizarre sense of humour)
Quote:
I'm afraid we will also have to disagree on your take of "Western" practitioners. It seems my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. When I trained in Japan it had only cemented for me the position that true Budo (of which kokyu-ryoku is a part) was more in the West (and practiced by more westerners) now than in the East.
Well someone should pass this on to Abe, Sunadomari, and others that they're missing out on the good stuff in the West.
Quote:
As I said, this jo trick stuff was being practiced at a time when Osensei was being put up as a political/social/cultural icon. Uke were faking things for him all over the place at this time. This was not the time of Osensei when he was 68 and demonstrating at Asahi Shinbun (I believe he was that old at that time - maybe he was 48). Once you start faking things, you don't really have a place where you can stop and say, "Oh wait a minute - this is TOO fake." Rather, you just start going with it, working more to find ways of including it along the lines of what you have already done. In this way falsehood perpetuates itself. It is like this with a commitment to Truth as well. Once you start a path of Truth and accuracy, it keeps going and you keep making decisions based upon what is more truthful and more accurate.
In other words, in real Aikido, uke's don't take dives for nage's? I think you just made a profound comment about Aikido as a whole, David! The fact that O-Sensei's uke's were cooperative with O-Sensei in those demonstrations was different from a lot of Aikido in what way?

Regards,

Mike
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