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David Valadez wrote:
(re the "jo trick")For it may be true that one may be dealing with a centered power or a power that is emanating from a center, but at the same time it is an example of violating the physical laws that pertain to leverage.
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How are the laws of physics being violated?
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What we are seeing, or what someone is trying to show us (better said), is that with "kokyu-ryoku" one can defy the natural world. For me, that goes against my suggested notion of kokyu-ryoku being in accord with the principles and laws of Nature.
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No, all Ueshiba was showing was the extent of the powers he had built up using his special training methods (which he obviously didn't pass down to most of his Aikido students, right?). Granted his students over-dramatised the demonstration a bit, but the ability to withstand forces from the side is a well-known kokyu/jin demonstration. I can think of about 10 people, off the top of my head, who can withstand sideways pushes on their arms or weapons pretty well. It's just a demonstration of the power that they have built up, coordinated with their skill in jin/kokyu. Nothing more.
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Mike, I am getting the feeling that you feel there are these drills or techniques out there that stand over and above normal training (e.g. kihon waza training).
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True. Kihon waza is usually done without any idea of what kokyu skills are, so kokyu training should be added to the kihon waze, the Aiki-Taiso, Tai-sabaki, etc.
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Or, better said, that waza training alone is not enough or even couldn't possibly be enough (e.g. "couldn't believe he had access to the sort of training…"). If that is the case, I would have to disagree. In my opinion, while waza training may not be enough for some, it is enough for others.
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Well, I guess we disagree.
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Or, better said, if one trains correctly and fully (i.e. meeting every tenet) in waza, one will cultivate kokyu-ryoku.
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And if you poll western Aikidoists and ask how many of them train kihon waza correctly, the overwhelming answer would be what? And if you then tested western Aikidoists to see how many actually have bona fide kokyu skills, you'd find what?
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Those uke were faking it for Osensei just like my acquaintance was faking it for his teacher -- my opinion. In contrast, the unbendable arm is something completely different in my mind -- even in principle. It is, as was explained above, in perfect accord with the natural world (i.e. the antagonistic relationship between muscle groups, etc.).
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OK. I understand your stated position and how you see things.
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However, I am more than willing to change my mind if I could see something first hand or better yet experience something first hand (something that would also account for why the jo itself does not break should it be unable to leverage itself forward (and all kinds of other things like that).
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Frankly, if I was studying Aikido, there are enough clues out there about the importance of ki and kokyu that I would be asking every "teacher" (particularly the original uchideshi, etc.) I could find, in order to get information or at least the indication that it was a hidden topic. I.e., I would be actively chasing information. Wait.... that's what I did.
Regards,
Mike