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Old 07-14-2005, 08:58 PM   #213
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
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Re: Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido

Really? I was under the impression you were not asking my what I meant by profound. I thought you was asking me who I thought had some profound skills. Maybe I'm just too tired. Regardless, I'll answer that question but I don't want to get unproductive.

We agree kokyu movement is beyond normal strength. My opinion that power in movement beyond surface level "normal" strength in the aikido arena is at least a bit profound - meaning _to me_ "from the depths of your being" - to at least some relative degree since I think we continue to discover new deeper depths.. Again, I'll take responsibility if it was a poor expression on my part (meaning more confusion than helpful, but not necessarily flat out wrong. I agree that such quibbling doesn't drive anywhere useful.).

As far as the title of the thread, in my opinion since you have been writing about gradations, you opened a door to talk about less than highest level too. I have been of the opinion that there is no actual "highest" level - since I believe that O-sensei was still working ikkyo out on his death bed. Regardless, we can say for the moment that O-sensei can be the max (as it's high enough for my point) and we can agree that the minimum is at least beyond normal strength, there exists a range of kokyu ability. I give example after example of people doing things at least beyond what I would consider normal strength, and you seem to suggest that those examples are probably not quite kokyu movement yet. I'm fine with that opinion, but it would be good to get a better picture of what you consider the bottom of the gradations since it seems to be a bit higher than what I would define as the minimum.

Rob
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