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Old 07-14-2005, 10:22 AM   #210
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido

Rob Liberti wrote:
Hmm...the unfortunate implication here is that I must be some poor poster in general, but _you_ feel I'm improving.
Not at all. Just trying to be disarming. What is more of a concern to me than "bickering" is "lack of facts". In this case, you're presenting reasonable opinions in your argument... but that doesn't get around the impasse we have about *facts* that keeps coming up.
If you want to try to further explain how kokyu really is and how different it is from normal movement or why you feel I'm thinking of one thing as general ki and kokyu movement and how you think I should be looking at it, I'm truly interested.
Well, I've been pretty extensive in explaining the mechanics of a number of things. I haven't seen any mechanics from you to support what you're calling "kokyu", how to do it, etc. I think we're fairly obviously at exactly the impasse I described (different perceptions) that can probably only be resolved by demonstration. I would change my mind if you could give some of your own examples, how-to's, etc., and we could arrive at a common ground.
You got that from my writing "I see so many people attain some profound (_at least_ to them, but maybe very legitimate) level of understanding and then make the mistake of trying to start out all new students from that point." Well, while I think it would be in poor taste to mention the names of legitimate people who I believe failed their students
I'm not concerned with their students, in my question. I'm asking about this "great many" in Aikido that have, in your opinion, "profound" skills. I'm unaware of any great many, particularly amoung western Aikidoists, so I was asking a straightforward question of who they were, leaving aside any question of whether they failed in their teaching methods, etc.
I would offer up Ralph Malerba sensei - a student of Gleason sensei. Ralph sensei had major problems with his shoulders (I think from a car accident) to the point he could not possibly do a push up, and he was throwing a professional football player all around the dojo with kokyunages.
Would that be a "profound" level, in your opinion? Did the professional football player actively attack Ralph or were these cooperative attacks, such as you usually see in a dojo?
Another example would be my sempai in Japan named Nishida san. He is a very under-ranked godan in Fukuoka. I would love for you to meet him. I'm positive he'd be more than happy to push hands with you, demonstrate his ability to perform any kokyu test you want - provided you ask with enthusiasm and humility. I asked him about the jo trick, and while he didn't hold a jo, he stuck out his arm to his side and resisted my pushing of his wrist from front to back and back to front pretty impressively. Anyway, I'm confident he has something beyond the mundane.
I know a number of people that can relaxedly put their arm out and the average person can't move it from side to side, etc., but I'm not sure I would label this level "profound". It just tells me that someone has told them something about correct standing exercises and they've practiced it.


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