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Old 07-12-2005, 09:57 PM   #186
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido

Michael Stuempel wrote:
My understanding of the "ki demonstrations" that I have seen is that they look fairly difficult and make people go "wow" but are really not that difficult. I mean, I can do nikajo on one leg and have people pick me up and then sink so they can't hold me any more and I can be pretty unmovable...
Hi Michael:

I more or less agree with you. The reason I don't say "yeah!" is because of the "gradations" thing I was talking about where I've been stung once too many times by finding out that what sounds the same can sometimes include variations that make me feel like I did a disservice by agreeing too much.

If you can do those things and gradually decrease any muscle that you're using, you're certainly doing some of what is "kokyu power" (problem is that it can contain several elements). Analysing it, refining it a lot, expanding it, learning to do it moving, etc., takes a long time, but I'd generally say that if someone *really* knows how to move with this sort of power, they can do most of the "ki tests" pretty easily. There's a caveat in that statement that has to do with standing exercises, but it's an aside.
Since I can do some of these things I am looking for something more when I watch a demonstration of Aikido. And I think that both Peter and I are taking the position that when we see a "ki demonstration" and a dynamic, flowing "Aikido Demonstration" then we get more out of the latter than the former and a better idea of someone's ability.
I don't disagree with you about dynamic movement, it's just that I tend to avoid subjective judgements unless we're together and see the same things and then categorize. All I was offering was my opinion that if someone really has serious kokyu power, they wouldn't have any real difficulty with the basic kokyu demonstrations of Tohei (I caveat on a couple of his demonstrations because they can be duplicated by things other than pure ki, IMO).
That all being said...I also think you are right in that there is too much "woo-woo" wrapped up in this KI word and that there must be something in it somewhere. Which is why I would go to the workshop (aka...that other thread) if I was in a position to do so. I would like to know what should be and should not be put under the "Ki Category".
It's all interesting stuff and, as I've been reminded a few times by some pretty big dogs, "It's very deep". Anyway, I appreciate your comments. I learn and I'm forced to think a lot in these conversations, so it's helpful for me.


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