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Old 06-15-2005, 12:08 PM   #296
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 74
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward

Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Ki seems to be an important concept. As a concept it allows us to connect with ourselves and others. To establish the critical bond of interdependence that peace requires. Too many people focus on the meaning of KI and trying to define it. Labeling it "mystical" , "supernatural". IMHO, it is not important to define it, as much as it is to experience it and understand it.
Can you understand something without knowing what it is?

Michael Gallagher wrote:
While technique is what we do, it is not the endstate in a DO system. Maybe this is where we would differ???
I think we're looking at the word "DO" differently. You seem to be looking at it as a literal 'way'. The way I see it, nearly all the techniques found in 'DO' styles came from older styles. These techniques have the same purpose they did when they were made, to injure or restrain someone. I don't see how a technique can be taken from a fighting style and then somehow have it's purposed changed to create peace.

Michael Gallagher wrote:
Kendo people would be very interested to hear that.
Right, because we all know kendo is realistic self defense training.

Michael Gallagher wrote:
BTW, I have yet to be to a seminar in anything where the demonstraiton is with anything other than a "compliant student." The exception might be a demonstration of sparring or light grappling for position, but even then, it's with someone out ot be a horse's backsdie and confound/hurt the instructor. So why it's a big deal that you don't see AIkido masters fight their ukes is beyond me.
Have you ever heard of senshido?

I wasn't talking about just seminars either. There are a lot of instructors out there who will willingly show you that they know how to use what they teach. They do this through competition, or even just sparring or rolling with the students. Now I've heard plenty of stories about how invincibles Ueshiba and other aikido 'masters' are, but I've never seen them fight. I've never seen them spar. I've never seen them do anything with a resisting opponent (and no, charging at your instructor with your arm sticking out with no concern for your own balance does not count as resisting).

Michael Gallagher wrote:
I'd believe you would be preserving a part of it. Culture is so ubiquitous that you can not get away from it. Language and dress are a part of a culture. Fighting systems are interesting because you don't find that as a speciality in hunter/gatherer societies; it's only in agricultural societies that MA became a separate area of study, and so the culture they originated in got bound up in it. Even if it extends only to the style of uniform, terminology, it's there. Like it or not.
A part of it yes, but the entire culture? No. Aikido doesn't even contain the ideals of the majority of people in that culture at that time. It's just about Ueshiba.

Martial arts didn't get wrapped in culture. Boxing has very little culture around in. Wrestling has very little culture around it. Sambo has very little culture around it. Only recently have many martial arts become the way they are because some people can't see why they were originally made.
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