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Old 06-15-2005, 11:19 AM   #43
""jon""
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Anonymous User
Re: Frustrated by unconvincing aikido

Quote:
WantToSpeakOut wrote:
to "jon" - I have to disagree with you about realistic attacks. Osensei gained knowledge through real fights are you saying he would have done just as well only training in a dojo?.
It wasn't a nerve you hit. After re-reading your first post, and then your second post there are lots of flags that go off in my head. I now tend to think the experienced you described was very one side as you presented it. I sense a bit of trollish posting when I compare your posts. It seems your first post indicates a male phrasing and tone, the second post switches to lean toward a female tone and phrasing. The latter tone tends to give more credibility.

I think the whole purpose of your posts is to promote "my Aikido is better then yours." Those who don't compete are arrogant wimps and those who train "realistically," "like me" are the real deal.

Over the years there has been several movements in Aikido that have divided people, and to change how Aikido is looked at. The first was the idea that Daito ryu was the soul contributer and influence of Aikido. The second and the most recent movement driven by some who practice other arts besides Aikido, say Aikidokas don't train realistically, they don't compete, and they "cooperate" thus these Aiki fruits or other such nice names are deficient. Because, they don't view such things as if it where the invention of fire, like those who don't train exclusively in Aikido. I think you are from the latter camp. Which explains your anonymity.

See, for the most part most of the members here don't feel either movements are so important. They don't support such movements as another board and those members do. This my explain why you posted on here and not in the general forum.

Per your quote, I am no expert on the life of Osensei. I wasn't fortunate to meet him or speak to him when he was alive about his life and Aikido. Therefore, what I know of his life I don't recall any of his "real" fights. I know he was a WWII POW captured in China. I will suspect he was engaged in combat, and will presume that it was a fire fight, and not hand to hand combat. Please tell me the events you are referring which Osensei engaged in fights that gained him the knowledge you speak of. I would love to hear those factual events where Osensei was in a fight(s), especially after him his enlightening experience after him coming home from the war that lay the keystone of Aikido as a non-violent art. We know the stories of Takeda. Is that who your are confusing Osensei with?

Takeda thought of himself as a Samurai, which I see no reason why he wouldn't be considered such. The time of his birth was a time of the Samurai, he was raised to be a Samurai by Samurai in a noted Samurai family. Takeda unfortunately was caught between time. He did kill men by the sword, and kill and injure with his martial arts skills including what he taught Osensei. Takeda did have "realistic" fighting experience, but it was different then the experience of Osensei in WWII. Takeda lived a violent life, and paid for it in his health and physically, his mental state; always on the defensive, concerned when and by whom would he be attacked by, mostly those seeking revenge. He suffered socially in the way people looked at him and treated him, and how he treated other people. Takeda wasn't a fighter, he was a man that used his martial skills in life and death situations. Takeda was instructed initially on how to use a sword, and other weapons, and empty hand techniques way before he used them to save his life or rid criminals from a community.
I think you are confusing the two, Osensei and Takeda, as well as what it means to be realistic.


BTW, where and how do you think Osensei learned his skills from Takeda ( or anyone else) while Osensei and his sensei's where in a bar fights? I don't think Osensei learned on the run, getting beat up until he learned something. I don't think it was a trial by fire learning experience. He obviously learned conventionally either in a dojo and or seminars, probably much like what most Aikidoka of today; a waza is demonstrated and then practiced by cooperating training partners. Not by thugs who are uncooperative and their "realistic" goal is to put you into the hospital every time they see you. You need to be taught what to do before you do it. And having someone constantly pummel you in the name of "realistic" training doesn't get you anywhere and hurts you. You have to be trained, in a pro-learning cooperative environment lending itself to succeed developing skills, that are called on when if faced with a situation that calls on your skills. Pseudo life and death mentality, aka competition, is an optional and unrealistic bench mark, a disposable questionable litmus test, not the whole enchilada. Shsssh. this is what you should be frustrating you is that you got suckered into that "what we do is realistic" myth. What should be unconvincing is not Aikido but buying into your posts. My opinion.
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