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Old 06-06-2005, 02:25 PM   #72
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 600
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Re: So I took a Judo class today...

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Monty Collier wrote:
Cool, where did you go?
Capital Jiu Jitsu in Alexandria, Virginia

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I would love to see you come to Silvio Braga's Jiu-jitsu school in Knoxville, TN and just wrestle his guys stand up with the Gi. I have a feeling you would get educated real fast. And these guys are just Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.

I've seen guys from Helio 'Soneca' Moreira's schools who were white belts and blue belts toss Judo brown belts during stand up matches with the gi. The Judo guys had won plenty of Shiai, and were trained by a Rokudan, but could not get the takedown. This made the Jiu-jitsu guys really downplay Judo. 'Soneca' had studied Judo in Brazil.
The guys you refer to are likely wrestlers with many years experiece and likely have Judo training as well, you mentioned the instructor had Judo training. So if I did spar them I would not be going against pure Jiu Jitsu, I would be fighting MMA fighters.

You can't have it both ways, you say that people who win MMA matches using Judo are not true Judoka since they crosstrain. Then you have Jiu Jitsu guys who cross train many styles and then claim it is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. No it is MMA, and I will readily admit that someone who trains MMA is likely a better fighter than me, no question.

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Wow, you sound like your a natural takedown machine. That, or your doing takedown wrestling with a bunch of chumps.

You are so wrong. Judo is not designed for NO-GI. The front-headlock demonstrates this all too well. I got kids who are in high-school, and they could put you in a front-headlock, and you will not get out with all your Judo. Like I said earlier, I have seen Brazilian Jiu-jitsu black belts incapable of escaping a collegic front-headlock. The front-headlock was not found in any Asian style. It is a Western hold. And a damn good one. Get a copy of Gable's Advanced Wrestling and check out how he puts it to use. You have to be trained to use and escape the front-headlock. And then, if the guy understands 'stance in motion' your gonna hate it.
Judo is designed for Gi or No Gi, it does not matter, you just have to alter the grip. I am not sure what your point is about the front headlock, it is an effective technique, but that does not mean Judo techniques are not.


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I have never seen a Judo school take off their jackets and perform pummeling drills. Such drills are basic for no-gi stand up positioning.

Maybe you are referring to to what is called a C2 grip in Modern Judo (there is no such thing as a Koshi-guruma grip). This is where you take your power hand and grip around his neck at the 2nd cervical vertabrae. The C2 grip is still quite different from a Collar-Elbow (which is maybe what you are thinking about). You don't seem to know what you are talking about. You should know the basic terminology of Kumi-kata if you study Modern Olympic Judo. Maybe your teacher doesn't instruct you in this, or maybe you don't listen in class. Here are some of the grips in Modern Olympic Judo: C2, Right-Natural, T3, Left-Natural, LeftvsRight, Scapula, Pectoralis Pocket, Anterior elbow, Double-lapel, Double-sleeve, Yamarashi (careful 5 seconds for this one), and two on one, and so forth.
All I was saying was that I took a grip as in koshigaruma, not that koshigaruma was a grip in itself. We don't learn the grips by the names you have said here, we just do them. Just because I don't know the name of the grip does not mean I don't know what I am talking about.

I am curious, what is your rank in Judo and what organization was it issued by? Because I have never heard anyone test or require Judoka to know the names of the grips.

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I think we agree more than you know. You just like verbal Judo. The problem is that I do too. You would like our Academy. I have some who preach that wrestling with a Gi is a dead art. I have some who only do Judo. I have others who only do AAU Folk-style. Then there are those who do it all.
Your place sounds great and I am sure the guys that train in multiple styles combining striking, wrestling, BJJ, Judo etc. would have no problem defeating me, but that does not mean Judo is not combat effective it just means MMA is more effective than Judo alone.
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