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Old 06-04-2005, 08:42 PM   #52
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 601
Re: So I took a Judo class today...

You guys are flat out wrong about several things and I will explain below, this is why I still haunt these forums even though I no longer do Aikido. Judo is too often misrepresentation here on Aikiweb.

Competition increases a martial art's effectiveness, this is evident in Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, Sambo, Wrestling, Boxing etc. All of these arts will 99% of the time completely dominate someone who trains only in kata or kata like ways.

However, I will concur to a degree that some people who have a 100% competition mindset and never consider the martial application of the techniques are limiting themselves. But my money would still be on a 100% competitive judoka versus a traditional jujitsu practitioner or Aikidoka anytime.

I believe Kano derived Judo from jiujutsu and alot of that was based on politics and philosophical differences based on the time and climate in Japan.

It is possible that Kano improved upon Jiujutsu, but since it would essentially be a derivative, I find it hard to believe that it would be more combat effective.

Diato Ryu is a form of jiu jutsu, BJJ is a form of Jiu justsu...I do not put them in the same category as aikido really if you look at it that way.

I used to think that competition ALWAYS watered down the combat effectiveness of a system. Now I think that it is immaterial. Some competition is good. The problem with it is perspective. If you focus solely on the "game" you may not gain all the "combat" aspects of the art.
The main difference between jujitsu and judo is training methods. Most jujitsu trains in kata forms and as a result are generally unprepared to fight somoene who trains in randori and competition. Maybe some of you are unaware but there was a famous contest hosted by the Tokyo police in 1886 where the Judo team defeated the most well-known jujutsu schools of the time. Still to this day I can not recall too many times where I have seen somoene who trains in kata that defeats somoene who trains in a competition oriented martial art. True, Judo derived its syllabus from several schools of jujitsu but the difference is that Kano focused on developing the more practical elements through realistic training.

Modern Olympic Judo is not combat ready, unless the practitioner is innovative enough to alter some of the techniques. Or, unless he has cross trained in Jiu-jitsu (note my spelling). I have known very good modern Judo players to get into fights and throw wild flurries of punches. When they were done fighting, I asked them, "why didn't you do any of your Judo?" The guy answered, "Because I was in a fight." I returned, "Yeah, go think about that."
This is simply false you will have to explain more about how you think it is not combat ready especially when compared to an art like Aikido. The Judoka you mentioned not using Judo in a fight is just their stupidity, it says nothing about the effectiveness of Judo. I have read plenty of stories here on Aikiweb where people failed to use their Aikido and resorted to other ways of fighting, including a close associate of Ueshiba.

the only thing the above shows is the limitations of the individual and not the method in itself. It depends on the goal and focus of one's training. The vast majority of Judoka I know train specifically for competitive sport and nothing else, as such they may have a problem in a self defence scenario (may being the operative word as the only certainty is there are no certainties). This does not mean however that the style in itself is not ready for self defence with a very little bit of creativity or the right intent.
I agree, I think you have it right. It is up to the individual to learn and apply the techniques effectively. If somone trains only for competition and does not even see or realize Judo as a means of self defence, then they are going to have problems using it that way. The same can be said for any martial art, if an Aikidoka only trains for their spirituality and does not train for self defense then it is likely that they will not be able to use it well to defend themself.

Personally I use competition as a way to motivate me to stay in shape and keep practicing hard. It is a good way to learn how to apply techniques when your adreneline is high and when there is someone trying their best to beat you.

When I am training I try to stay aware of self defense applications, for example, keeping my head tucked and face turned away when I pinning somoene. There is a aiki-jujitisu guy that started practicing with us recently who likes to try and hit pressure points on my neck, says he is going to mock eye-gouge etc, to get out of pins, the stuff never works on me and I am not vulnerable to it.
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