Larry Camejo wrote:
I understand your position.
Now please understand that you are not understanding mine. Your last post proves that, and it's cool.
If you looked at the name of the thread and the general points of conversation you will hopefully see that the word "martial" and "spontaneous" are very prevalent. This means that this thread is not designed to marginalise or put down those who practice Aikido for the myriad of other reasons that exist. In fact it does not even address them. The topic of the thread is specifically targeted towards "martially effective" Aikido and understanding the depths of how the Aiki concepts operate in a truly martial context without resorting prematurely to methods outside of that contained within the Aikido and Aiki paradigm.
So just to recap, I have no problem with those who do Aikido for philosophical, spiritual, social, medical or whatever other word ending in "al" that one can find, except for the word "martial'. The culture of mediocrity (which is different to calling someone a mediocre Aikidoka who does not train martially, which I am not doing) that we are speaking about is with regard to those persons who seek to apply it in serious martial situations and who are trying to understand the depths o f applying Aiki as a sound martial paradigm.
Thus I would appreciate it if you not try to make me appear as if I am trying to label as "mediocre" those who are not training in Aikido for martially effective reasons. I have no problem with their training at all. If they feel mediocre in what they do then I don't think it is from something I have said here but maybe a reflection of the self.
I hope you understand now. This thread is not really for those who are not training Aikido with a martially effective goal in mind. I don't think it can get much simpler than that.
Hi Again, Larry,
I rereead your first post and some of the latter posts to try and get a better handle on things. One question pops to mind: What is the "martially effective" situation you want people to train for?
A self defense situation would be outside the dojo, and if technques learned "cooperatively" work, then that would considered effective, but you said in the first post, "I am not referring so much to self defence.... " So what is the scenario you're talking about? Is it so that if a Shoot or a Judo person swaggers in and issues a challenge, you can face them with nothing but Aikido and be victorious? That would be nice, but if you're best buds with the guys who do that in your area, what are the odds that will happen?
Maybe I'm dense, but while I can see you want people grounded in Aiki principles as much as possible, I'm unclear as to what they're supposed to be grounded in them for.