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Old 04-24-2005, 04:01 PM   #106
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Shioda, Tohei, and Ki Things

James Bostwick wrote:
Actually, since you've quoted my e-mail, I'll also quote the message I sent subsequently, in the same series of communications, to clarify my position in the matter.
The point is that there are different "flavors" of Ki. That it's all Ki is not the point. Getting thrown/punched by two practitioners of Ki-related arts can often feel different and result in varying effect. The energy may be the same, but the concentration/channeling may differ. It is my contention that the body dynamics often flow from this manipulation of Ki. But it goes without saying that some forms of kinesthetics are simply expedient for a given battlefield or combat situation, and born more of practicality than esoteric practices.
I'll also add that I was not saying that Tohei's Ki was unique. Just that you are not necessarily qualified to say that you know what he's doing with it because you have a background in Chinese arts and have watched him on film.
But you haven't changed anything... you're still stating your opinion, but asserting that the "concentration/channeling" is different. How about some sort of support to these oddities instead of just assertion. Your argument is that the ki in Aikido is somehow different than the ki in other things, yet you offer no support.

Secondly, I say it again...this is NOT a martial arts discussion. It's a discussion about ki and kokyu. I have about 8 years of experience in Judo, about the same (not simultaneous, either) in Okinawan karate, and roughly another 8 in Aikido... so my background is fairly large in Japanese martial arts, as well. Let's just stick with ki and kokyu and leave all the side issues, please. I asked you to support your position about the ki and kokyu being different and now you're also saying something vague, and strange, about the "concentration/channeling"... could you support that please? So far, you've offered opinions and insults and one apology, but you have not made a single substantive support for your assertions. In my opinion, if you want to discuss an issue you'll need to formulate and articulate your thoughts. If you can't marshall a compelling argument, don't take it out on the other guy.

Lastly, let me point out clearly your problem of the "different ki's" thesis that you're saying bars me from making general observations. What Tohei, Shioda, and others that I've commented on (from observation and other data) do are very well-known and recognized phenomena. I.e., it is not me by myself that would identify what they do as standard ki/kokyu things. I'm not putting myself alone as an expert on ki and you're questioning my ability to make observations, I'm making those observations with the extreme secure feeling of knowing that I haven't said anything radical or risky. So for your thesis to be true, you're essentially having to posit that there are two different phenomena in human capability that appear to be the same, but they're actually different. If we take your argument back to basic increments of how the human body works, etc., your *assertion* of differences will fail... and you should know that, just from common sense. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's not a penguin.


Mike Sigman
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