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-   -   How much training per week? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9853)

Toothpaste 02-19-2006 02:59 PM

How much training per week?
 
Hey.

I've only been training in Aikido since August, but it's been long enough to witness my club double its training hours, and I train in all four of my club's sessions. Two hours on Monday, two on Thursday, two on Friday and one and a half hours on Saturday as well as helping out for an hour on Saturday mornings at the kids' Aikido class.

I wouldn't be surprised if training this much a week is above average, but I really have no idea. I've searched this forum for answers, but have found none, so I apologise if this topic has already been covered.

So, the question I pose to you all is: how much training do you train in aikido per week (or otherwise)?

nathansnow 02-19-2006 03:11 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I have not been able to practice nearly as much as i would like, mostly because of my8 month old son. I liked training 4 days per week the most. I was able to get alot of practice in and still had 3 of 7 days to recover!

Just make sure that you enjoy it!

akiy 02-19-2006 03:14 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=113
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5749

-- Jun

James Smithe 02-19-2006 10:33 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I think it's a shame that seven and a half hours is above average. More people would be more proficient in Aikido if they trained more seriously. I wish most Aikido dojos gave you the option of training 14 hours a week.

Chris Li 02-19-2006 10:46 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Mario Jones wrote:
I think it's a shame that seven and a half hours is above average. More people would be more proficient in Aikido if they trained more seriously. I wish most Aikido dojos gave you the option of training 14 hours a week.

Perspectives tend to change when you have children and a busy job. I have more respect for someone with three kids and two jobs who trains four and a half hours a week (an actual example) than for some teen or near teen who trains fourteen. The number of hours alone has very little to do with how seriously a person trains.

Best,

Chris

James Smithe 02-19-2006 11:07 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I get what you're saying but the hours you put in have a lot to do with it. It just means you have to sacrifice more than the average person. I can't accurately judge that person because I don't know their complete schedule. I'm not saying they should train 4 hours a day like BJ Penn but 4 hours doesn't seem like a lot.

Toothpaste 02-20-2006 12:45 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I'd love to train for more hours, even so that it's common for me to go through the movements of the techniques in my bedroom or garden, but I respect that my Sensei has a very busy schedule outside of the classes that I am in - he is also involved in youth clubs and other things, and as such, I don't think he has much time left to give as training.

Maybe things will change when the club eventually gets a new dojo. :)

Chris Li 02-20-2006 12:47 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Mario Jones wrote:
I get what you're saying but the hours you put in have a lot to do with it. It just means you have to sacrifice more than the average person. I can't accurately judge that person because I don't know their complete schedule. I'm not saying they should train 4 hours a day like BJ Penn but 4 hours doesn't seem like a lot.

Put it another way - I'm not very impressed by a 20 year old doing 40 front rolls, but I'm extremely impressed by an 83 year old doing 4 (another actual example). I suppose that it depends on what you think that your goals ought to be, but I can guarantee you that the 83 year old is making a greater sacrifice, as is the person in the first example that I made.

Best,

Chris

George S. Ledyard 02-20-2006 09:06 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
In my experience, most adults need a minimum of three times per week to make staedy progress. All of the Godan and Rokudan level teacehrs I know spent a substantial period, ay some point in their development, in which they trained six or seven days a week.

It all depends on how good you want to be. I tell the young students to train their brains out while they still have the opportunity as it only gets harder to keep the commitment as they get older with the demands of jobs and family.

Mike Sigman 02-20-2006 09:20 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
In his cryptic and near-religious way, Koichi Tohei says "extend Ki all the time". If you tend to view the Ki-Society bit as peripherally focused, it's easy to just put the "all the time" down as one of those sayings. However, most of the the very high-level practitioners of martial arts that use "internal strength" that I've ever seen tend to mention this "all the time" aspect of their training. You cannot really learn to move "from your center" with 3 practice sessions a week while doing "normal movement" the rest of the week. You have to practice all of the time in sourcing your power from the ground through the hara (or from the weight of the body) before the mind will ever take the clue that you intend to override the natural arm and shoulder inclinations we've developed since childhood.

O-Sensei had special heavy-weight garden tools made and reportedly did a number of other things which indicated that his practice extended outside of the dojo. I've listened to experts say that they even spent time stirring the soup with their middle, openning doors using the force from the ground, doing everything in fact, with the correct movement. So my 2 cents is that how many times someone goes to practice during a week doesn't quite cover the subject.

FWIW

Mike

Chris Li 02-20-2006 01:51 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

George S. Ledyard wrote:
In my experience, most adults need a minimum of three times per week to make staedy progress. All of the Godan and Rokudan level teacehrs I know spent a substantial period, ay some point in their development, in which they trained six or seven days a week.

It all depends on how good you want to be. I tell the young students to train their brains out while they still have the opportunity as it only gets harder to keep the commitment as they get older with the demands of jobs and family.

The more I go on, the less I think of becoming good as an important goal. That is, unless you are instructing others (and if you ask me, too many people in Aikido are interested in instructing others), than how good you are isn't really all that important. More important is whether or not your training informs and enriches your life, and that is just as likely to happen when going to two classes a week as it is going to seven. In these terms, less important than frequency, IMO, is consistency over the long term - and consistent training over a lifetime is probably harder to acheive than intense training over a period of a year or two.

Best,

Chris

Michael O'Brien 02-20-2006 02:30 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Mike Sigman - Really enjoyed your post and will ponder that for a while tonight at work I'm sure.

Presently due to my work schedule seriously conflicting with my training schedule I get 2 hours a week to train in the dojo, 1 hour on Tuesday morning and 1 hour on Thursday morning.

This isn't nearly enough to keep me satisfied;

When I worked days and had my nights free I trained a minimum of 5 hours every week in the dojo and often times as many as 7-9 hours in the dojo.

I also do practice at home with weapons and my wife is gracious enough to allow me to use her to practice basic technique on as well.

Mike Sigman 02-20-2006 02:38 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Michael O'Brien wrote:
When I worked days and had my nights free I trained a minimum of 5 hours every week in the dojo and often times as many as 7-9 hours in the dojo.

Hi Michael: Still, it's not just about doing the hours, is it? It's the hours of correct practice. The hours of correctly shifting someone's movements to "moving from the center", etc., and convincing the mind that this is what you want to do.....
Quote:

I also do practice at home with weapons and my wife is gracious enough to allow me to use her to practice basic technique on as well.
Me, too, when my wife's not too tired from pulling the plow all day. And when she doesn't whimper from the bokken strikes... I hate that noise!!! ;^)

Nah.... I'm surprised my wife is as tolerant and helpful as she is. But still, the hours to re-train the body, not to mention train up... it's tricky. That's why when I see some "teacher" who teaches 6 different arts and claims to be an expert in all of them, I just shudder.

Regards,

Mike

MattRice 02-20-2006 02:39 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote:
Perspectives tend to change when you have children and a busy job. I have more respect for someone with three kids and two jobs who trains four and a half hours a week (an actual example) than for some teen or near teen who trains fourteen. The number of hours alone has very little to do with how seriously a person trains.

Best,

Chris

Indeed: for example currently I have to figure out how I'm going to get to Cherry Blossom in DC (here in the US) for seminar. I need to do the whole seminar to be eligible to test for shodan. Thing is, it starts on my kid's birthday: he'll be five. crap. might be testing next fall instead of this spring.

aikigirl10 02-20-2006 02:48 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I think it all depends on how capable you are of remembering and how quickly you pick things up and how much practice you would need for those things to stick with you. I think it would definitely vary for each person. I'm lucky to be able to train once or twice a week (and even that is rare) but i still feel like i haven't forgotten much of what i've learned and i also feel that i improve with every class so ... idk whatever floats your boat.

MaryKaye 02-20-2006 03:15 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I train eleven hours a week, most weeks (currently suffering from missed classes due to holidays and work responsibities--my body is *used* to that schedule and objects when deprived!) But I have a training partner who started about when I did and has matched me test for test through third kyu despite generally being able to train only once a week. He just learns faster than I do, and he's very focused in class.

I expect to adopt a child soon and I figure I'm going to have to learn to train in a more focused fashion, as eleven hours a week just won't be happening anymore. But while I have the chance, I enjoy it.

Mary Kaye

Michael O'Brien 02-20-2006 03:38 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote:
Hi Michael: Still, it's not just about doing the hours, is it? It's the hours of correct practice. The hours of correctly shifting someone's movements to "moving from the center", etc., and convincing the mind that this is what you want to do..... Me, too, when my wife's not too tired from pulling the plow all day. And when she doesn't whimper from the bokken strikes... I hate that noise!!! ;^)

Mike,
I agree that just showing up at the dojo doesn't accomplish anything per say; 2 hours of quality training will beat 8 hours of just showing up anytime.

I like the idea of 7-10 hours of quality dojo training though. :)

I've also found if you invest in a good gag you can almost completely stifle the whimpers from the bokken strikes. ;)

Mike Sigman 02-20-2006 03:59 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Michael O'Brien wrote:
Mike,
I agree that just showing up at the dojo doesn't accomplish anything per say; 2 hours of quality training will beat 8 hours of just showing up anytime.

Absolutely.
Quote:

I've also found if you invest in a good gag you can almost completely stifle the whimpers from the bokken strikes. ;)
Now we're BOTH in hot water from the PC Police. Before you know it, we'll probably both be singing soprano in the Vienna Boys Choir. ;)

Mike

Michael O'Brien 02-20-2006 04:23 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote:
Absolutely.Now we're BOTH in hot water from the PC Police. Before you know it, we'll probably both be singing soprano in the Vienna Boys Choir. ;)

Mike

LOL ... Nah, when the PC police show up just use all that bokken training to break their wrists before they get the cuffs on you.

Mark Freeman 02-20-2006 04:54 PM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote:
In his cryptic and near-religious way, Koichi Tohei says "extend Ki all the time". If you tend to view the Ki-Society bit as peripherally focused, it's easy to just put the "all the time" down as one of those sayings. However, most of the the very high-level practitioners of martial arts that use "internal strength" that I've ever seen tend to mention this "all the time" aspect of their training. You cannot really learn to move "from your center" with 3 practice sessions a week while doing "normal movement" the rest of the week. You have to practice all of the time in sourcing your power from the ground through the hara (or from the weight of the body) before the mind will ever take the clue that you intend to override the natural arm and shoulder inclinations we've developed since childhood.

O-Sensei had special heavy-weight garden tools made and reportedly did a number of other things which indicated that his practice extended outside of the dojo. I've listened to experts say that they even spent time stirring the soup with their middle, openning doors using the force from the ground, doing everything in fact, with the correct movement. So my 2 cents is that how many times someone goes to practice during a week doesn't quite cover the subject.

FWIW

Mike

Mike,
our politics may differ, ;) but I agree with your post above.
My teacher stresses the need to apply all the principles learned in the dojo into daily life. He did spend about 10 years with Tohei Sensei, so that probably explains it.
I am usually in the dojo 3 times a week either as a student or teacher, so that may not put me in to the 'enough' catagory, but I agree with your last sentence that frequency does not quite cover the subject.
Quality of instruction must play a part. 1 session a week with a 'very good' sensei is probably worth many more with a lesser sensei.
I make no personal claims here, it's just an observation on the question in the thread.

I particularly Like Christopher Li's point
Quote:

The more I go on, the less I think of becoming good as an important goal. That is, unless you are instructing others (and if you ask me, too many people in Aikido are interested in instructing others), than how good you are isn't really all that important. More important is whether or not your training informs and enriches your life, and that is just as likely to happen when going to two classes a week as it is going to seven. In these terms, less important than frequency, IMO, is consistency over the long term - and consistent training over a lifetime is probably harder to acheive than intense training over a period of a year or two.
This seems to me to be close to how many people (in my own limited experience) practice.
Aikido is an important part of any aikidoka's life, many would like to spend more time training but modern life, work, family, geography, only allows so much. If your aikido practice enriches your life, then surely that is 'enough'. If you want to compare yourself with others it may not be, but how useful is that?

Just my 2 penneth worth

Mark

Nick Simpson 02-21-2006 06:44 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
3 times a week on average, but 4 or 5 when training for a grading or if Im feeling particularly zealous. So thats 6 to 10 hours a week or so. 3 times a week is apparently the best amount to train in something, or so I have read. These days Im teaching more so thats not really the same...

Lyle Bogin 02-21-2006 07:26 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I've become busy enough that I train about twice a week in formal class, and twice a month on a weekend at the dojo. I often practice independently, which includes all of my martial arts skills and not just aikido, plus I have some kung fu friends I hang out and train with once a month or so.

I also took a job where I use my skills all day long (PE teacher at a "second chance" middle school in NYC). That has really shifted the focus of my training.

senshincenter 02-21-2006 07:42 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote:
The more I go on, the less I think of becoming good as an important goal. That is, unless you are instructing others (and if you ask me, too many people in Aikido are interested in instructing others), than how good you are isn't really all that important. More important is whether or not your training informs and enriches your life, and that is just as likely to happen when going to two classes a week as it is going to seven. In these terms, less important than frequency, IMO, is consistency over the long term - and consistent training over a lifetime is probably harder to acheive than intense training over a period of a year or two.

Best,

Chris

Well said Chris.

Thanks,
dmv

Derek Gaudet 02-21-2006 09:50 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
Quote:

Matthew Bowen wrote:
So, the question I pose to you all is: how much training do you train in aikido per week (or otherwise)?

Every minute of every day ;) . But physically speaking if we're talking about actual mat time, I used to only get a average of 3-4 hours a week, would've like more... but that's the way the cookie crumbled. As of now I only can train once a week during the weekend... But I make ever second count and will go for several hours straight given the opportunity. As long as your thinking aikido, then it is a form of training...

jducusin 02-21-2006 11:11 AM

Re: How much training per week?
 
I'm there for every class offered (five times each week), including helping out with the kids/beginners' classes twice a week --- so in total, that amounts to roughly 10 hours (sometimes more if I get in some extra training with Sensei before classes) each week. But then, I also have some pretty high aspirations for my training; so ideally, it would be nice at some point to train more (say, in an uchideshi kind of situation), especially while I'm relatively young and --- as of yet --- childless.

I would have to concur with Ledyard Sensei's assessment of a minimum of three days a week of practice to maintain steady progress --- this is exactly the same thing my own instructor recommends. But then, of course, this would greatly depend upon your own Aikido goals.

Cheers! :D


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