Seidokan Aikido
Hi. I'm new to Aikido, and I'm going to start my Aikido training as soon as I manage to choose dojo here in Tel Aviv area.
To understand where to go, I've googled pretty much in search for information about Aikido, and read a lot. I tried, but with no success, to find more information about Seidokan Aikido - the general information appearing on the different dojo web pages doesn't explain much. What are the major differences between Seidokan and Ki Society in approach to Aikido? There must be some reason Seidokan was established even though Ki Society seemed to have so much in common with them. What are the major conceptual and practical differences between Seidokan and these-days Aikikai? |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
If you haven't run across them yet, you may find useful information on the web at http://www.seidokan.org and http://www.aikidoinstitute.com or by Googling the name of the founder of Seidokan, the late Roderick Kobayashi Sensei. Good luck.
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Re: Seidokan Aikido
I think you first have to decide what you want to get out of your training. Then visit the different schools. You should observe their practices. Most should let you participate in a couple of classes before commiting. Don't forget to ask the instructor and students any questions you have.
The ultimate goal is to make this style the right fit for you. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Dmitry - I'm with Saji here, forget books, philosophy and agonizing about stylistic differences, go to the the dojos which interest you and see which fits you best. Even dojos under the same banner provide quite different environments, so I'd suggest you go by the dojo rather than the style.
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Re: Seidokan Aikido
From a technical standpoint Seidokan Aikido generally has much smaller movements, we've reduced a lot of the large, classical sweeping circles into much smaller circles, that tend to be a little quicker, and a little easier to transition into another technique if something goes wrong. We place more of an emphasis on teaching, so there tends to be a little more verbal description than is common in the Aikikai.
Sei-, or makoto we typically translate as "absolute sincerity", and we attempt to embody this in our training, keeping things realistic. We believe that the art should continue to develop and evolve, and therefore you will see techniques that more traditional dojo's don't practice, and a lot of the traditional forms have evolved some. We've had to name them, and therefore the body of nomenclature is slightly larger. We have a set of 22 Aiki taisso that are performed at the beginning of every class. My sensei mentioned the other day that one of the reasons we changed the name to seidokan from Ki society, was a practice called Aiki Ryoho, or Ki Therapy, which they use for an income source, and we use primarily when sensei has a stiff neck. I haven't trained with Ki society, so I'm not sure of some of the other differences between the two, but I do know they place more of an emphasis on Ki development, for anything more specific about the differences between the two, you'll have to find someone who's trained in Ki Society. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
No one I know of outside of Japan in Ki Society using Kiatsu-ho or Ki Therapy as an income source with the possible exception of the Oregon Ki society which has the one school outside of Japan to train people who wish to learn just that rather than aikido. It's pretty much a separate thing in Japan as well and most people practicing aikido in Ki Society just use it as a therapy on each other and haven't gone through a certified school course.
Technically Seidokan and Ki Society have a great deal in common which may not be surprising since the Seidokan founder was formerly the Ki Society USA West Coast Chief Instructor. The Aiki Taiso and much of the rest in Seidokan comes from Ki Society. Ki Development is of course the foundation of good technique in this lineage of aikido and people ignore working on it at the risk of eviscerating their aikido. The recommendation that you just forget all this and go check it out and see if you like the particular school and teachers as well as checking some other schools out is a good one. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Thanks all for your replies.
I understand the point: "come and see", but that's me, I tend not to believe to my eyes if I don't understand what's going on there at all ... Of course I'm going to visit a few dojos in my area to see what I like more, however I'm concerned with my ability to evaluate it correctly given I have zero experience. So, I'm just trying to get some basic information to know what to look at. Wayne, while practical, self defence aspect of Aikido is not among my primary motives, as a newbie I permit to myself to be curious about that as well. :) I don't want to sound stupid, but... do you consider Seidokan to be as effective as Aikikai in case of unfortunate necessity, assuming equal levels of training? |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
If you can, and if it's in your area, there is a Korindo Aikido school in Israel. Korindo Aikido is one of those rare treasures...you should check it out if you get a chance.
Best, Ron |
Essence of Seidokan Aikido?
Well, guys, can anyone explain me the essence of Seidokan Aikido in comparison to other styles? Advantages and disadvantages?
Ron, thanks, but considering how selective they known to be in accepting new students, I just don't feel myself ready at this moment to give it a try. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
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Hi Dmitry, In this case, it really boils down to how good the individual is as opposed to how good the art is. Quote:
There's a thread around here somewhere, or an article in one of the other sections (unable to find it right now as my system seems to have jammed up), that highlights things to look for when going to see what Aikido is all about, it's certainly less about style and more about the interaction between people in the dojo. I'll edit this post if I can find it. and here it is http://www.aikiweb.com/training/witt1.html Regards Bryan |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
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Best, Ron |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Rod Kobiyashi broke off from the Ki Socity to 'do his own thing', so Seidokan is an offshoot of the Ki Society. You can get some generalized Style descriptions here
http://www.shugenkai.com/aikidostyles.html look under "Modern Styles". |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
What they say of Shin-shin Toitsu Aikido:"Most schools are not primarily concerned with practical physical application of the techniques, considering them exercises to further develop unification of mind and body."
Would this also be true for Seidokan, and in what extent? |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Having extensive experience with Seidokan, I would say it depends on the teacher. My instructor was a high ranking Seidokan instructor, before he started his own organization. His concern was that the technique was natural and relaxed, but it had to be martially effective.
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Re: Seidokan Aikido
I had the opportunity to take some ukemi from Terry Pierce Sensei of the Ki Society. I don't care what anyone says about the Ki Society...His Aikido was Martial! One of the best martial artists I've ever been thrown by. I think like in everything else, it comes down to the individual. And your relationship with them.
Best, Ron |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Now you're talking!
:) |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Well, as far as a practical self defence application *as a beginner*, I would give someone with seidokan a slight edge- simply because our techniques tend to to be simpler in execution, and because because our philosophy is to train realisticly. With enough training both styles likely equally effective, but I think seidokan is a little easier to learn.
I have to agree with everyone else who has said that the teacher and the people should be your primary deciding factor. I would personally recommend Seidokan over Aikikai, as my experience with it has been very good, and I personally prefer it over what experience I've had with Aikikai, but that is only a personal preference. Try out both and see which fits you best. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
I second that Ron! When Pierce Sensei was here a couple of months ago, he was great. Also, I don't think I ever trained with a nanadan that I threw and pinned as much as he threw and pinned me.
He is a class act, and definitely martial. I love the old school Ki Society guys. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
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I think it comes down to this. You will find teachers and people in various Ki Society lineage (Ki Society, Seidokan, Shin Budo Kai, Shugenkai, Ki Federation, PAF, Yuishinkai, etc.) with these same concerns. Understanding this is of course a process. and then you will find people whose goals, agenda, whatever is not primarilyy concerned with the martial aspects of the art. I have to say I think this holds true in every aikido organization regardless of the organization's agenda. so you are back to visiting dojos and trying out classes, talking to instructors regardless of organization and seeing if it is a place you want to spend a lot of time. |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
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Re: Essence of Seidokan Aikido?
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We are that selective ??? I doubt it. It is true we expect people to commit when joining, and do not normally have free trial lessons. Nor are we willing to let a student from another non-Korindo dojo (in Israel, visitors from abroad are welcome ;) ) just drop by to visit uninvited. But we are very happy to accept new students. And give them the fullest attention of Sensei and Sempai, to the point the first few lessons are as close as it gets to a private lesson (this is one of the reasons for no trial lessons - we can't spare that much attention for nothing, and the first lessons are so different from any others). Quote:
Actually, more because of Sensei Shlomo David knowledge and experience. about which I can write he is unparalleled in Israel with regard to Aikido - the most veteran teacher, a full time M.A. teacher, and senior in other M.A. (Judo, Karate) too. You should also consider the number of Yundasha in the group, which is substantially larger then in most groups around (too many have Shodan/Nidan teachers - at the same level as us sempai in the Dojo). Obviously, that does not mean Korindo Aikido is the right answer for you. Every person is different :) The Dojo site: www.Shirokan.com Sensei is currently slightly injured - has more time to talk, and most of the group guiding is being done by us sempai. Though Sensei does keep an eye on us :straightf Amir |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
Hi Amir. Good post, and good to see you in this thread. I hope your teacher recovers soon.
Best, Ron |
Shirokan dojo
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Re: Seidokan Aikido
Hi Dmitry,
I'm coming to this a little late but I'll throw in my penny. Just so you know where I'm coming from...I've practiced Seidokan aikido for nine years now. It's the only aikido style that I've actively studied, I've only been to a couple of seminars of other styles. I'm not going to tell you that what we do is the best thing going and that it holds everything you need or want. I'll echo those who've said to visit the various dojo available. I think it's far less important to pick a style than to pick a sensei you feel you can learn from. My sensei happened to teach Seidokan, if he taught something else I'd be doing that. Like most aikido out there it really is difficult to classify Seidokan (or any styles) technique. You'll find teachers who only want to focus on ki development, others are only concerned with martial application, others want precise technique, and some care less about what external form looks like and more that the principles are followed. Most people will probably be a mix off them all. Again find a teacher you like. Some technical aspects you'll probably find/not find in Seidokan are:
As far as differences from other aikido I'll leave that for people with more experience with other aikido :D That's just my take. If you need me to elaborate on anything let me know....you may want to email me through the AikiWeb system as my school responsibilities often keep me away from the forums. Bronson |
Re: Seidokan Aikido
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Thanks :) If you ever tour near us - come and visit. Quote:
Actually, replacing Sensei in the last couple of lessons this has gave me quite and headache - experienced Yudansha on the on hand (some at my level, some better then me though less veteran) and several beginners on the other hand. It's quite a challenge, isn't it amazing how Sensei seems to solve these things so easily ? :rolleyes: Amir |
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