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-   -   who can wear hakama (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7779)

malsmith 03-23-2005 06:05 PM

who can wear hakama
 
im sure this has been asked before but here i go again...

what ranks are allowed to wear hakama?

i think this might be different in every dojo, but then why is it different?
who wore hakama traditionally? just anyone? or only "the masters"?

bendo 03-23-2005 06:06 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
In our organisation, shodan and up get to wear the hakama. I think, though not sure, that women of kyu grade can wear as well, for modesty reasons?

akiy 03-23-2005 06:11 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Just for the record, here are a couple of threads which have discussions on this subject.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4166
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6485

As well as the polls:

Do you normally wear a hakama during aikido practice? - 7/1/2000
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=13

Do you think everyone, regardless of gender and rank, should wear a hakama in aikido? - 8/26/2000
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=21

-- Jun

Zoli Elo 03-23-2005 07:42 PM

So board at the conference.
 
Jun I think that you might have a mono operation bias in your second poll (mono method bias) that threats it validity. I say this as there are several possible groups were there is not a hakama to rank level, correlation - strictly. So, it is a real possibility that individuals in some groups would say that, 'regardless of gender and rank [nearly] none should wear a hakama in aikido.'

In my opinion, if a person wants to wear a hakama, more power to them...

akiy 03-23-2005 07:48 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Hi Zoli,

Thanks for your thoughts. Since that poll was one of the earlier ones (way back in 2000), I wasn't very good at thinking about all (or, hopefully, most) of the possible responses. I hope, though, I've gotten better in the mean time!

-- Jun

crbateman 03-23-2005 09:48 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
The hakama question has numerous conflicts. When I explore it, I see many photographs showing O'Sensei teaching a roomful of students, with almost nobody wearing hakama, even black belts. In other photos, everybody has one. Saotome Sensei tells a story from his uchideshi days about being dismissed from the mat by O'Sensei because he had forgotten his hakama. "What makes you think you can receive your teacher's instruction in your underwear?" O'Sensei asked. It also seems in those days that O'Sensei wasn't picky about styles, grades or colors of hakama. Saotome Sensei says that many students showed up for practice having snuck their fathers' expensive silk decorative hakama out of the house.

One thing does seem certain. That is that the hakama, in Aikido at least, was not intended to be one the trappings of rank, although modern interpretations seem to have made it so. It is realistic to assume, since a good hakama is expensive, a student should be given the time and opportunity to gauge his commitment to the art before having to invest in one. In the present, it seems to be basically up to the respective organizations, and even to individual teachers, to decide how to treat it. In gatherings of mixed styles, or when visiting a dojo not of their own, I have not personally seen any student who didn't have one asked to put one on, nor have I seen any student who wore one asked to take it off. Your mileage may vary.

AikiSean! 03-23-2005 10:42 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
In the video "Rendez-vous with Adventure" the narator says the gentlemen in "black pantaloons" are instructors. Then, when they begin training with O'sensei, one of the documentors is wearing a hakama and the other is not.

PeterR 03-23-2005 11:06 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
I used to say that we don't wear hakama in Shodokan Aikido and then I find out that University students in Enbu demonstations do. Turns out that their instructors do not. So you could say that advanced Shodokan practioners are less likely to be found wearing those pantaloons.

We love being contrary.

batemanb 03-24-2005 04:59 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Quote:

Sean Constable wrote:
In the video "Rendez-vous with Adventure" the narator says the gentlemen in "black pantaloons" are instructors. Then, when they begin training with O'sensei, one of the documentors is wearing a hakama and the other is not.


I've seen a few MA documentaries over the years where the presenter/ narrator doesn't know his @rse end from his elbow and often fails to corroborate facts :D

rgds

Bryan

Dazzler 03-24-2005 05:51 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
I've heard that everyone wore them at one time,

they are pretty expensive...and following the war many couldn't afford them.

Piece of cloth really...but I was proud to be awarded mine.

We tend to award them around 3rd kyu for blokes and slightly earlier for ladies.

Generally done in recognition of committment to our organisation more than anything else.

Cheers

D

Ketsan 03-24-2005 07:05 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
As a rule men don't get them in our association until dan grade and women can get them at 5th kyu and above for dedication.

Bronson 03-24-2005 10:02 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
In our dojo those who are at least nikyu AND have taken some sort of teaching responsibility.

Bronson

maynard 03-24-2005 11:31 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
As the saying goes, when in Rome, do as the Romans. I would ask what the custom is if I were visiting a dojo outside of my organisation.

Jim Simons 03-24-2005 12:15 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Another reason to ask whether or not to wear a hakama when visiting, at least if you are mudansha: it can be a safety issue. Those you're training with, not knowing you, may make certain assumptions about your ability to take ukemi based on those "black pantaloons" you're wearing, depending on the customs of their own dojo. It's not ideal, but it happens. Most of us at least sometimes will make those sorts of assumptions, whether it's about the stranger in the hakama, the stranger in the gi with right lapel over left and obi hanging down to the floor, or the stranger in the sweat suit.

Of course, if you _really_ want to wear that hakama, then you can safely lower peoples' expectations of your ability level by taking special care to trip over the hem (as spectacularly as possible) when getting up for the first technique. ;-)

Ron Tisdale 03-24-2005 12:34 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Huh! I've been wearing a hakama off and on for about 2 years now, and I STILL trip over the hem sometimes...

:)

p00kiethebear 03-24-2005 01:23 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
I started doing battodo before i ever joined aikido. In battodo everyone was allowed to (and encouraged) to wear hakama. When i finally joined my sensei's aikido class I just kept wearing it without a clue. He didn't mind, so i still. wear it.

The only time i take it off is when we go to another dojo to test where the hakama rules are more heavily enforced.

Zoli Elo 03-24-2005 02:16 PM

Even though my hakama is akin to my safety blanket...
 
Quote:

Katriona O'Neil wrote:
Hello, just a small question; if you belong to a dojo where anyone can wear hakama, or wear one after their first testing and visit another dojo would it be impolite to go wearing your hakama with no knowlege of if they are 'awarded' at a certain rank or not (the implication being that if you wear a hakama when your below the grade that it's awarded to)? I understand that a person would usually ask if they were representing their own dojo, but if you were just visiting (also if it is to a different school of Aikido)..
Thanks, Kat

Lately, I have been going with no hakama and a white belt when visiting other dojo. Aikido is a little different from dojo to dojo, so I find it best to not expect anything and not give them any expectations. Plus it is neat to see how they treat me dressed like that.

Michael Holm 03-24-2005 03:15 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Within Ki Aikido in Denmark, its normally to wear hakama from 2. kyu (same to men and women :) )

Steven 03-24-2005 03:48 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Who can wear a hakama?

That's easy. Anyone who feels like it. Just buy it and wear it anytime you want. Though your dojo may have an issue, so don't wear it there. But wear it anywhere else if you like. Kinda like asking, "Who can wear pants". No?

xuzen 03-25-2005 12:12 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Quote:

Steven Miranda wrote:
Who can wear a hakama?

That's easy. Anyone who feels like it. Just buy it and wear it anytime you want. Though your dojo may have an issue, so don't wear it there. But wear it anywhere else if you like. Kinda like asking, "Who can wear pants". No?

I'll second that Steven, as well as those who wear them and escape the agony of getting their toes entangle with it during practice. Clearly I don't belong to the fortunate group. My hakama is at the moment neatly folded and left undisturbed inside my apparel drawers.

Boon.

YinYaker 03-25-2005 06:02 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
I would feel a little silly doing my grocery shopping in one.

Jim Simons 03-25-2005 08:07 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:
Huh! I've been wearing a hakama off and on for about 2 years now, and I STILL trip over the hem sometimes...

It'll be another year or two before I have the 'priviledge' of impeding my movement in that particular way. At the moment I'm content to trip over my own feet, my partner's feet, the seams of the mat... ;-)

estel 03-25-2005 05:40 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
In our school - it's for 1st kyu and up, although I believe women may wear it at any point.
Then again, we seem to be different to most Aikido organisations when it comes to ranks.

Lyle Laizure 03-25-2005 08:54 PM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
I encourage students to wear hakama from day one. Traditionally they were required or you could not practice, at least in Aikido.

Ky Elliott 03-27-2005 05:12 AM

Re: who can wear hakama
 
At Tsubaki Grand shrine, students wear Hakama after their 5th Kyu test. it seems that advancement is much slower in Tsubaki Aiki and Ideta ryu. dont know why. I did Aiki for two years and never achieved 5th kyu.
Same with Bujinkan Budotaijutsu. Never tested.


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