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seank 02-18-2005 07:03 AM

Looking for the name of a technique
 
I'm wondering if someone can help me out with the name of a particular technique.

We have recently started more intensive paired practice with bokken, and I came across a situation where I was corrected and told that the technique I was performing was not correct.

The particular technique was not learnt in an Aikido context, so I understand that it may not have a relevant context.

To the technique...

From a position of uke striking at nage with shomen, nage steps/slides omote whilst blocking the strike overhead. Once nage has move sufficient distance from the shomen strike, nage strikes/slides downwards on ukes bokken, (and this is where it gets a little tricky to describe) with the intention of pushing ukes bokken downwards, then re-strikes shomen to ukes head.

I understand the purpose of pushing/sliding down on ukes bokken, but what I started off doing was to side-step omote, quickly tap/knock ukes bokken downwards then strike shomen to ukes head.

What I wanted to know is whether anyone else knows of the technique in the application I have described (that is tapping/knocking the bokken down rather than pushing the bokken downwards), and what the name of the technique is.

Any help would be appreciated. :)

pezalinski 02-18-2005 09:27 AM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
No luck on the name, mate. But if you tap-and-counter-attack, you are probably opening yourself up to something nasty, IMHO -- you've disturbed his attack, but the tap gives him energy to work with while you raise up to shomen; unless you've struck it hard enough to knock it it completely away, or have hit his hand (so he cannot hold it), you've just set yourself up for a classic tsuki attack.

I have seen the technique you've described taught and executed -- with the intention of striking the kote or hands, prior to the coup d grace -- this set up the necessary mai and opening for the shomen. Padded gloves were involved, though the advaced students were able to receive the attack and defensively blend so as not to need them.

Hope that helps :)

Ron Tisdale 02-18-2005 11:08 AM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
There is a technique called gashiuchi where as uke strikes shomen, nage moves slightly offline and strikes uke's boken, creating an opening for a tsuki to the throat. I'm not sure my description matches what you are doing however.

Ron

rob_liberti 02-18-2005 02:41 PM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
I don't know the name of it either, but I can probably find out.

We do something like what I think you are describing in the ASU's aikiken from yokomenuchi (aikiden #1, 2nd and 4th variation) and tsuki (aikiken #6). (Unless they've been re-ordered AGAIN!) We do something like the sliding tap down in aikiken number #5 aswell, but we don't go for a shomen to the head next. Aikiken #1 variation 5 and aikiken #10 also have a sliding down uke's sword into a shomen, but the attack you are defending is from a low position coming up toward your neck, and your sword is actually under theirs to start that movement. I can't think of anythng exactly matching that description in kashima either. What style of sword were you doing?

When you do this, do you tap their sword down with the flat (non-sharp) "side" of your sword? And do you primarily make the power happen by using your back hand?

Rob

Kent Enfield 02-18-2005 03:44 PM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
It sounds like you're describing a variation of what would be men-uchiotoshi-men in kendo terminology. When done correctly it is a very effective technique, but it is difficult to do correctly, and is thus a high level technique. If all you do is tap, then you're not going to break your opponent's kamae, and you should expect to get cut in side of the abdomen when you swing up--Your side will be much closer to your opponent's sword than his head is to yours. However, if you cut down his attack just before it would come to stop, which requires very precise timing, from the correct position, which requires very precise control of maai, then your opponent's sword will be put far out of position, and they will have their weight forced onto their forward leg, temporarily planting them in place, giving you plenty of time to cut them.

At the very high levels, the uchiotoshi and cutting the opponent become one and the same, making a one-beat technique in which you cut through their attack to the target of your choice.

seank 02-18-2005 05:04 PM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
Quote:

Rob Liberti wrote:
What style of sword were you doing?

This was originally learnt in a variation of Kyokushin Karate (using bokken).


Quote:

Rob Liberti wrote:
When you do this, do you tap their sword down with the flat (non-sharp) "side" of your sword? And do you primarily make the power happen by using your back hand?
Rob

It is with the flat of the blade (as in a tap from the side of the blade to the side of the blade). It is a little difficult to describe without the right term, but the best way I can describe the technique is it is almost like blending with an unarmed shomen-uchi attack... you are not meeting the strike head-on, you are parrying and helping ukes bokken continue on it's originally intended course.

The technique is very fast; you never fully commit to the tapping of ukes bokken, rather the tap deflects the blade far enough away for you to strike shomen or to tsuki... That said, the tap is still powerful enough to slightly unedge ukes center, making a kaeshi difficult.

Timing, as mentioned, is critical though, as too soon or too late and you open yourself up to being struck again by uke.

Thanks for the replies though :)

Don_Modesto 02-18-2005 10:26 PM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
Quote:

Sean Kelleher wrote:
...the name of a particular technique....From a position of uke striking at nage with shomen, nage steps/slides omote whilst blocking the strike overhead. Once nage has move sufficient distance from the shomen strike, nage strikes/slides downwards on ukes bokken, (and this is where it gets a little tricky to describe) with the intention of pushing ukes bokken downwards, then re-strikes shomen to ukes head.

UKE NAGASHI?

This isn't how we (ASU) do it, but it's similar: http://www.stenudd.com/aikibatto/shoden06b.htm

seank 02-18-2005 11:43 PM

Re: Looking for the name of a technique
 
Quote:

Don J. Modesto wrote:
UKE NAGASHI?

Looks pretty similar yeah...

I had a brief chat with a Kendo practitioner this afternoon and he suggested that what I am looking for is referred to as maki-waza and also as uchi-otoshi...

He went on to say that timing is critical (as suggested by a few replies - thanks again guys!) and that it it needs to be performed very quickly.


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