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darin 01-31-2005 07:29 AM

shoulder injury
What are the most common injuries in your dojo? In mine its usually bruided shoulders and sprained wrists.

Tonight I busted up my right shoulder doing a jumping forward roll. It was my fault for not warming up sufficiently. We were trying to clear two people kneeling and I landed on one of them.

Anyway there wasn't a lot of pain and I still have full movement. There is a clicking noise when I rotate my shoulder. I applied an ice pack during training so maybe it will be ok. Do you think I should see a doctor tomorrow?

SeiserL 01-31-2005 07:42 AM

Re: shoulder injury
IMHO, when in doubt, consult with a competent specialist. Better to be safe than sorry.

Jeff Sodeman 01-31-2005 11:10 AM

Re: shoulder injury
Toe injuries

Jonathan 01-31-2005 11:57 AM

Re: shoulder injury
I know of one guy who has had many injuries from practicing aikido. In fact, he has had far more injuries from training than anyone I know. Let's see...he has had:

Two dislocated toes. (He also tore the skin between the toes when he dislocated them)
Torn right hamstring. (Got caught in a hakama)
Torn right ankle tendons. (Rolled his foot over running behind nage for an attack)
Torn left knee tendons. (Weakened by marathon running)
Torn right rotator cuff tendons. (Too hard nikkyo osae)
Fractured left elbow. (Shihonage, I think)

I wonder what his answer would be to the question, "What is the most common injury in your dojo?" :crazy:

TheWonderKid 01-31-2005 07:12 PM

Re: shoulder injury
I dunno about everyone else in my dojo, but I find my back mostly. The muscles tense up at times if I'm not properly warmed up.

I also find the shoulders and arms a little sore sometimes as a result of pins.

But flat out injuries are rare I think.

Jim Evans 01-31-2005 07:34 PM

Re: shoulder injury
I find my pride is regularly injured :D

seank 02-01-2005 06:23 AM

Re: shoulder injury
Hi Darin,
I've found general bruising to be among the most common injuries (although I've recently lost a toenail when someone stood on my foot whilst I was attempting a tenkan movement). We're really safety conscious (as I suspect most dojo are nowadays) so the injury side of things is quite rare, but sometimes things happen...

With regard to your shoulder, does it click when you rotate the arm if your elbow is bent (for example with your fist pointing upwards (ala bicep flexing pose) and you rotate the whole arm downwards (so that your fist now points towards the ground)) or does it click when you do something else?

A click might indicate a rotator-cuff type injury, but can also be evidence of ligaments being stretched or misaligned. I have slightly dicky shoulders in that they click when I rotate my arm as described, but I've been assured by both physicians and physio/chiro people that it is not bone, simply the ligaments moving over the bone...

That being said, I find it's always worth seeking professional advice (whilst I am a sports trainer, I have a fairly rudimentary understanding of anatomy and physiology - I like to get the opinion of someone who knows what they are on about). Icing the shoulder was a good move; ice packs often mitigates the chances of exacerbating the injury, but the lack of pain is not always a good indicator. In the meantime though, I'd recommend keeping off the affected shoulder/arm until it can be properly looked at ;)

darin 02-01-2005 07:31 AM

Re: shoulder injury
No clicking if I perform the test you recommended. I get clicking on my other healthy shoulder so as you said its just ligaments moving over the bone. Most of the pain is on the top of the shoulder and a bit to the back of the shoulder The top is the only part that seems a bit sensitive to touch.

darin 02-01-2005 07:33 AM

Re: shoulder injury
Thanks for the advice Sean

aikidoc 02-01-2005 07:44 AM

Re: shoulder injury

If the pain is on the top of the shoulder over the area near where the tip of the collar bone is located you may have strained (torn) the acromioclavicular joint (A-C joint). If it clicks repetitive or several times in a row it is usually tendon snapping over a bone. A joint pop or click with generally not do so more than once without a rest period. Look in the mirrow to see if there is a bump on the top of the shoulder-if so I'd get the A-C joint checked. That's the infamous separated shoulder they talk about in sports.

darin 02-01-2005 07:50 AM

Re: shoulder injury
Thanks John. No bump on the top of the shoulder but it is sore there.

Bronson 02-01-2005 08:26 AM

Re: shoulder injury
I had the separated AC joint thing...not fun. I dealt with the pain for far too long before seeing a doctor. When I finally did (after re-injuring it) they immobilized it for a week and with slow and careful training for about a month after everything was coolio. The doctor said if I'd come in when I'd first done it I would probably have halved my recovery time.

I still have a slight bump there...but no pain.


Tim Heckman 02-01-2005 11:23 AM

Re: shoulder injury
I have an odd shoulder injury that's nearly a year old now. I was just finally getting forward rolls down, and becoming confident, and then went ahead and collapsed my arm and fell on my shoulder while doing the forward roll at speed. General practitioner examined it and saw no separation, but referred me to an orthopedic doctor because of severe pain and limited range of motion. Orthopedic doctor asked for MRI's and X-rays and saw no separation, and no substantial tears.
I started practicing again in about a week, avoiding the shoulder, and was back to a full beginners practice in 3-4 weeks, and learned how to do rolls without putting any weight on my shoulder :). However, I still have all sorts of clicks in my shoulder, and limited range of motion while raising my arm laterally. If I try to raise my arm to my ear from the left side, it stalls out when its parallel to the floor. It will raise higher, but needs help to do it (like using my fingers to crawl up the wall).
So my question is-- I'm not in any consistent pain from the injury, but it does affect my mobility and my bokken work, and its probably weakened my upper body strength. Push ups are a lot harder, and were painful for months after regular pain had disappeared (not that I had any great skills in that area in the first place). My doctor, orthopedic doctor, and chiropractor are all no help. Where do I go next? I'm in my mid-thirties, in a major metropolitan area and have fairly good health insurance. Any help is appreciated.

aikidoc 02-01-2005 01:50 PM

Re: shoulder injury
Darin: you might have just bruised the A-C joint or slight strained it.

Tim: yours sounds like a shoulder impingement sydrome. The head of the shoulder is impinging the rotator cuff or bursa. One exercise that helps is to put your arm on a fixed object and then use the other arm to press the head of the shoulder downward gently a few times. If you are able to lift your arm farther after you are probably getting an impingement. The test is Hawkins-Kennedy. Hold your arm straight out in front palm up bend it at the elbow. Then turn your bend arm towards your center. If you get pain it's likely a shoulder impingement. The inferior glide helps, icing and not sleeping on the arm also helps. You may also need to strengthen your rotator cuff muscles.

alparis 02-03-2005 11:20 AM

Re: shoulder injury
I have recently recovered from an A-C injury (i.e separated shoulder), several people here have recommended seeing a specialist, and I agree. This injury can linger and recur if you aren't careful with it. That's what happened to me, I tried to go back to class a few days afterwards and I think that I pushed it too far.

As strange as it sounds, my chiropractor (who is a martial artist), was able to help me.


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