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-   -   Wrist Strapping for training... (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7339)

Colbs 01-17-2005 05:07 PM

Wrist Strapping for training...
 
I was wondering if anyone has used wrist strapping during training that restricts the range of motion of the wrist? If so, what type of strapping did you use?

I have a joint 'disorder' (genetic/natural) of the wrist whereby my wrist joints are hypermobile and hyperflexible, the result of which is that my joint only locks up at a point where it is not particularly safe for me to be long term (my wrist will continue to get more and more flexible until it becomes very, very easy to stuff the joint up). As a result I have two options:

1) be proactive about ukemi, don't let myself get locked. Realise when it's at a point it would lock most 'normal' people and submit to the technique or pin.
2) Wear a strap which reduces the range of motion of the joint in order to 'normalise' it.

I've been doing 1 lately, and would like to try combining it with 2 - the tightening of the strapping will give me better feedback as to when to submit so that I'm not submitting too early so as to be useless for nage to understand their technique...

I was hoping some of you might have tried various types of strapping and could recommend one (my physio wasn't concerned with the type, as long as range of motion wasn't restricted).

DevinHammer 01-17-2005 06:11 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Quote:

Colby Pender wrote:
1) be proactive about ukemi, don't let myself get locked. Realise when it's at a point it would lock most 'normal' people and submit to the technique or pin.
2) Wear a strap which reduces the range of motion of the joint in order to 'normalise' it.

Hey Colby,
There will be times when doing #1 would be impossible, like receiving a hard, fast nikkyo. You won't be able to anticipate your joint becoming hyper extended.

On #2, I've never seen a "device" that would offer you sufficient protection while not being restrictively stiff or bulky, or potentially dangerous to your training partners.

My recommendation is good ol' fashioned athletic tape. An orthopedist or sports-medicine specialist should be able to show you some good taping methods. :)

Colbs 01-17-2005 06:53 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Yeah, I know about the limitations to #1, hence why I wanted to add some strapping.

I actually know an orthopedist so next time I speak to him I'll get him to show me a good way of taping the joint and give that a shot.

GLWeeks 01-18-2005 12:10 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
I've been having wrist problems for six weeks now with no relief in sight...

It's from a shihonage that happened during randori. unfortunately I couldn't fall out of it fast enough to be effective and after 6 weeks it's not really any better. I can sit here and roll it around without pain, but if I take a shihonage, kotegaeshi, or nikkyo it's really painful. I've been wearing a bulky wrist support during class and I hate it. I feel like when I pair up with someone I have to apologize to them for getting stuck with 'ole bad wrist'....

pezalinski 01-18-2005 01:08 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
:eek: Run, do not walk, to the orthopedist and learn how to tape it properly. ASAP. And don't practice until you do. Otherwise you risk improper healing and permanent damage to your wrist.

I've had to practice with joint injuries (ankle and wrist); with good taping, I healed well and practiced daily (uchideshi program) :D . I've had friends who didn't tape (just used elastic supports), and still have chronic problems with their wrists :sorry: .

Colbs 01-18-2005 03:50 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
I'd agree there - from what I understand straps (the device type) are for providing support during day-to-day activities, they're not designed to withstand the twisting and torsion you get from joint locks. Taping or 'free strapping' allows you to provide targeted support.

Joints are very important, and once they break, they stay broke. The best thing anyone can do if they have joint pain is get it checked out by a specialist in the area (sports med, orthopedist, good physio).

Alvin H. Nagasawa 01-18-2005 09:23 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Re: Wrist Strapping for Training
I have encounter in the pass several flexible jointed students. Usual the can resist joint motion in extreme to extension. And all of them are suffering some sort of problems for there arrogance or ego trip. I wounder if one who has that physical ability should have used there advantage(gift) to further one Uke training. In aikido flexibility is a level everyone is searching for. As you get older you loss that ability. You may not in your present condition progress in your level of training. because of this handy cap. I agree with all of the concern individuals that have given there option on your posting.
But, I wish to say on my behalf, as one that had injury's while training Aikido for the pass 34 years.

"one should listen to your body", If you are injured, seek medical attention, protect yourself from further injury. You must control the situation, and no one can tell you other wise.And you can continue training Aikido for many years to come.

Colbs 01-18-2005 11:24 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Alvin,

for a person with a normal range of motion, indeed flexibility is a good thing, my case is extream however. For example, my physio said a normal person will be able to get ~10-20 degrees past a certain point, a flexible one ~30-40 degrees (put most aikidoka here), he could get my wrist nearly ~90. Essentially what happens is that because my joints are also hyperflexible there is little resistance through the range of motion, my wrist will very easily go from normal rotation to extream hyperextension in a very, very short period of time. The more flexible it gets, the easier to hyperextend it gets.

With most people gaining joint flexibility is not a problem, because they're inflexible enough that the added flexibility causes no problems. For me I'm already more flexible than most people, too flexible through the joint for my own good. While others need to improve their flexibility to get to the ~30-40 degree mark, I need to reduce mine.

You're absolutely right about it being possible for me to be my own worst enemy, with me you have to move my wrist through WAY more range of motion before it comes on, making it harder for an inexperienced person to put the lock on, however, when it does come on it comes on really fast, and really, really hard - my wrist is being hyperextended way more than a normal lock extends a joint. I could keep resisting and trying to stuff nage up, but if I did I WILL screw up my wrists. I have to do the opposite and be very forgiving with resistance to certain techniques.

akiy 01-18-2005 11:51 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Quote:

Colby Pender wrote:
You're absolutely right about it being possible for me to be my own worst enemy, with me you have to move my wrist through WAY more range of motion before it comes on, making it harder for an inexperienced person to put the lock on, however, when it does come on it comes on really fast, and really, really hard - my wrist is being hyperextended way more than a normal lock extends a joint. I could keep resisting and trying to stuff nage up, but if I did I WILL screw up my wrists. I have to do the opposite and be very forgiving with resistance to certain techniques.

Personally, I'm more flexible than many people -- enough so that it would be very difficult to cause "joint locks" on me for many different techniques without, as you put it, putting my joints at risk. For instance, although I can't quite fold my palm onto the inside of m arm, I can have all four fingers and thumb touching it at once.

There is a difference, in my mind (and body) at least, between being resistant and being resilient. I believe that you can move in such a way to keep your joints safe without going "against" nage's movements.

One thing I've been working on as uke is to try to have my entire body receive the technique -- whether it's iriminage, kotegaeshi, or nikyo. So, even if my partner is trying to apply the technique on my hand/wrist, I try to keep a connection between that point and the rest of my body -- kind of like the same way that one might keep connection between my body and my partner's during a technique.

For example, if someone applies nikyo onto my wrist, rather than trying to resist the technique with my arm/hand/wrist or even just go down a bit by bending my waist, I use my legs to lower my body (ie bend my knees) or even let my legs go "free" in the direction of the nikyo -- in effect, receiving the nikyo with my entire body. So, in this case, rather than keeping my wrist "limp" (which would enable nage to go through the entire range of motion in my wrist) or tensing up to resist the nikyo, I keep a sort of "extension" through the wrist (which enables my partner to put on a nikyo) and move my entire body instead. (Kind of like some place in between a stiff piece of spaghetti and an overcooked piece, I guess. Al dente?)

You can also think of it in the way you might think of applying a technique as nage. You wouldn't want to try to throw someone, say, using kokyunage with your arm. Rather, you connect your arm to the rest of your body (or, as some might say, your center, your hara, your one point) and let that power your movement. As Chuck Clark says, "Your arms are connectors, not affectors." The same applies when you're uke as well.

Hope that helps some.

-- Jun

Colbs 01-19-2005 05:58 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Makes good sense Jun, connection in throwing, connection in falling...

I spoke to the osteo guy last night, so I'll give his taping suggestion a crack tonight and see how it goes - even though the joints aren't a big issue at the moment, I'd rather use preventative measures now, rather than have them become an issue later. Even with the restricted range of motion I should have more flexibility in the joint than most, so it shouldn't effect training at all.

Janet Rosen 01-19-2005 09:30 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Colby, I have a couple of joints that are hyperflexible, and in fact the base of one thumb is pretty chronically subluxed, so that I've been taping it for training for a couple of yrs now--it looks like a wrist taping to my partners, but it's not--and I find that it is a good support; won't prevent an injury that is bound and determined to happen, but keeps the iffy things from becoming problems.

Alvin H. Nagasawa 01-19-2005 10:16 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Re: Wrist Strapping for Training...
Ms. Rosen you seem to have very excessive physical injury due to Aikido training?. I believe you should either inform your partner's in training of your injury's. Just because you tape your wrist doesn't mean your Nage has the right to crank it. It is nothing to be ashame of"trying to practice with a injury".
One must show compassion when training on the mat. Tell them you are injured, Speak out!. You are paying your dues to train just like everyone else in your Dojo. Protect your self first, You are the number one priority to yourself. Train defensively read your Nage, feel his intent don't go against his force. Everyone of us need our hands to work and support our self's. Don't injure yourself further it's not worth it. I just don't understand this injustice to your fellow human being. These people that hurt others on the mat need to shape up. I think it's the responsibility of the instructor of the class to correct these individuals that are inflicting injury to the students.
Listen to your body and take care of yourself, Aid others that have injurys like yours, Guide them to the right path of healing.

Lyle Laizure 01-20-2005 12:12 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
In the past when I have had wrist injuries I have used boxing wraps focussing the majority of the wrap around my wrist to limit its mobility hence keeping it from becoming more injured. It also stands out to your practice partner that they should be careful.

Informing your practice partners of your limitation is very important also.

Janet Rosen 01-20-2005 02:40 PM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Quote:

Alvin Nagasawa wrote:
Re: Wrist Strapping for Training...
Ms. Rosen you seem to have very excessive physical injury due to Aikido training?.

You seem to make a lot of assumptions.
The laxity at the base of my thumb has nothing to do with wrist or other injuries in aikido.
My partners are all very solicitous about it and in the 2 yrs I've trained with it taped I've only ever had to yelp and walk away due to a sudden "owie" in the thumb two times

Jill N 01-21-2005 09:37 AM

Re: Wrist Strapping for training...
 
Colby:
I have some arthritis in one wrist and more recently had some nerve damage in both wrists due to a virus. I use a wrist brace occasionally, when I am sore, or numb. I looked for a long time to find one that did not have a metal or hard plastic insert, because I have been known to "whack" my friends at the dojo. (my depth perception is not so good cause I have a focussing problem in one eye) LOOK OUT! Anyhow, I did find a brand that does a good job. It provides some flexibility, but very limited, and it has a softer insert. There is a rectangle of material very much like thick leather which sits along the inside of the wrist. The brace I use is "Sport Aid" brand. I have one I have used for almost 7 years, and have two newer ones, they are all going strong, and I haven't yet induced a bloody nose in any of my aikibuddies. (well, not while wearing the braces, anyhow)
e ya later
Jill.


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