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-   -   Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7017)

AikiWeb System 11-28-2004 12:30 AM

Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
AikiWeb Poll for the week of November 28, 2004:

Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
  • I don't do aikido
  • My instructor
  • My fellow students
Here are the current results.

maikerus 11-28-2004 04:35 AM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
Not an easy one to answer.

Twenty years or so ago, I started Aikido because of the instructor. The class I watched (Kimeda Sensei in Toronto, Canada) was very interesting and the ability of the instructor combined with the way he taught made me want to join right away. This had been after about a month of visiting dojos of various martial arts and not finding anything substantial within the classes I observed to make we want to come back. Kimeda Sensei's class was completely different, so it was *him* that brought me into Aikido. I joined that night and came back for the next class.

I think, however, that I stayed in Aikido because of the support and encouragement of my fellow students. Which is why I voted for the "my fellow students". The support group of one's fellow students is important and different from the support an instructor can provide because there is always that instructor/student gap. It's sometimes easier to discuss and throw ideas around to someone who isn't your instructor. And sharing like experiences and Aikido successes is better with someone of your own ability and experience. And with people you feel you can easily interrupt when you have an idea to throw out...

It's a combination of them both, but another point to think of is that the students reflect the instructor and therefore the dojo community also reflects the instructor(s). But I think its the students that keep that community building.

Jeanne Shepard 11-28-2004 08:58 AM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
Without the instructor there is nothing. The other students are just frosting on the cake. (And I like frosting. Still need the cake tho.)

Jeanne

aikidoc 11-28-2004 09:39 AM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
That's a difficult question to categorize one way or the other. Poor instruction is poor instruction-however, I take it upon myself to learn something no matter what the quality of instruction. Also, after a while one takes responsibility for their own instruction and may seek answers in many ways (seminars, CDs, reading, training, etc.). That makes it sometimes possible to advance while not even being under a direct instructor. Your group, however, does make a big difference in it makes your practice more enjoyable-even if the instruction is not as good as it could be.

SeiserL 11-28-2004 12:40 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
IMHO, the quality of the instructors brings and maintains the quality of the students, so I would (if I must choose between the two) say the instructor.

Don_Modesto 11-28-2004 01:17 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, the quality of the instructors brings and maintains the quality of the students, so I would (if I must choose between the two) say the instructor.

My thinking, too.

mugen 11-28-2004 07:18 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
I would like to believe that students and instructors are both important for the dojo. we had a similar question which was posted in the forums. Uke vs Nage question. why can't we say both are in the same pot. they are both important and both do exist in harmony. Students have instructors. Instructors have instructors. Even the Kaiso (O-sensei) had instructors. even the instructors learn from students and grow with students. I like to think we all mingle together on the mat like good "awase" is in place. They all circle around. Where can we cut a circle?
rich

MaryKaye 11-28-2004 08:53 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
The distinction between instructors and fellow students is really hazy at my dojo--we start teaching early, and the first kyu who is studying alongside me on Tuesday may be teaching the class on Thursday. It's the whole community that keeps me there. The intructors maybe do more to nurture that community than the rest of us--no, I don't even think I can say that. It's a group project.

When we had to move dojo, everyone from unranked to yondan pitched in and worked their butts off. Even the kids showed up and helped us puzzle over the contents of the back room (why did our dojo need even one toaster, let alone two?)

Mary Kaye

Rupert Atkinson 11-28-2004 11:45 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
I think the question needs re-setting - Logically, there are four possible types:

1 Skilled practitioner + Good students = Good learning environment.
2 Skilled practitioner + Bad students = Teacher has Aikido skill but is a bad teacher = Bad learning environment.
3 Bad practitioner + Good students = Teacher lacks Aikido skill but is a good teacher = Good learning environment, but limited.
4 Bad practitioner + Bad students = Bad learning environment.

It is obvious which is best: Now consider what you have for yourself, and where you want to be in the future.

CNYMike 11-28-2004 11:54 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
I checked my fellow students, but mainly because I've become chummy with one of our newly-minted shodans. It was a real tough one; there should have been a "none of the above" option.

Pauliina Lievonen 11-29-2004 04:29 AM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, the quality of the instructors brings and maintains the quality of the students, so I would (if I must choose between the two) say the instructor.

In principle, I agree with this, but if asked which is more important to me in my aikido practice, I would have to say both. My teacher provides the experience and instruction, my fellow students the different energies and body types and points of view. I wouldn't want to miss either.

kvaak
Pauliina

Joe Bowen 12-02-2004 12:34 AM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
The Sensei is the genesis and pillar of the dojo, the fellow students are the supporting structure and fruits of the dojo. Both are important. But the Sensei, his methods and beliefs, fuels the environment in the dojo. If the Sensei is technically proficient but maliciously eccentric, then you do not necessarily have a hospitable training environment.
My current instructor is not the reason I started Aikido, but he is the reason I continue where I am. The people I train with are exceedingly good people. My Sensei fosters this environment. I have learned a great deal from my fellow students, and guest instructors, but in the end, they wouldn't have been there, or I may not have found them if not for my Sensei.

AikiRooster 12-02-2004 06:42 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
The Instructor, assuming he/she is certified/qualified to teach what your learning from that person is easily the most important ingredient.
The fellow student's are tool's for both the Instructor as well as the other student's. I am sure I am not the only long time student here. With that said, think of the many students that have come and gone with little to no effect on the dojo atmosphere/spirit. However, can't say the same about the main Instructor, Master, Grand Master, etc....
A good core of students is good for the dojo for numerous reasons, however, I do not think all of them put together can make up for the expert Instructor.
Another way to look at it is that if the student was more important then the teacher, than why the emphasis on the Teacher/student relationship? Student/Student relationships are important of course as well, but no where even close to as important as the Teacher/Student relationship.
Eventually though, you pass the student status and this is when the student to student relationship is most important to students because you or your fellow students whom are also lifers may one day be the one selelcted to carry on the dojo or system or style or whatever other term you wonna use here.
Interesting topic. Should have been a selection for BOTH though because that would have been the most appropriate answer. If I had to choose one or the other, without a doubt the Instructor is most important!


.

Lan Powers 12-02-2004 09:40 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
The teachers knowledge base, and ability to impart it are the largest factors in a healthy dojo environment. Student interaction is vastly important, but the heart of the dojo is the Sensei.
My opinion, from admitedly limited experiance.
Lan

PeterR 12-02-2004 09:45 PM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
A good teacher will attract the right students - the teacher is everything.

However, joining a new dojo I advise spending more time watching the other students before deciding to join. They are the best indicator of where you can potentially go.

Roger C. Marks 12-03-2004 06:42 AM

Re: Poll: Which is more important for you in your aikido training?
 
I was unable to find an answer to this. The reason I study and practice aikido at any particular dojo has always been 'connection' with the sensei ( both singular and plural), with sensei not necesarilly being the official instructor. But just as important has been my relationship with fellow students, whatever the level of their experience and skills in relation to my own. We are all students and perhaps we are also all instructors. The concept of 'mutual welfare and benefit' which kano shihan considered such an important integral part of kodokan judo perhaps sums it up.


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