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-   -   Wearing of Hakama at Seminars (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7009)

Dante 11-26-2004 04:42 PM

Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
The dojo I train in permits non-black belt students to wear the hakama during lessons and training. When attending a seminar, is it appropriate to wear the hakama as in our dojo? Should I not wear the hakama, or does it matter in any way during a seminar where multiple dojos and uniform rules are represented?

I'm planning to attend the May 05 Aiki Expo in Los Angeles and would prefer not to cause a stir.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Andres Moliver 11-26-2004 05:29 PM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
I wouldn't.

That being said, I've seen people wear all manner of uniform at seminars. At one seminar I even saw someone wear a completely black gi along with his hakama. So I don't think it really matters, if you really want to wear it.

Tommy_S 11-26-2004 06:04 PM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
I really don't understand why so many people considers hakama to be some sort of a status symbol for yudansha? During O-sensei time everyone were required to wear one... :confused:

BTW I also train in the dojo where mudansha (2nd kyu and higher) are allowed to wear a hakama. If I'd go to "all styles welcome" seminar, then I don't see a reason why not to wear a hakama. But If I would go to some "yudansha only" dojo, then I wouldn't wear it..... :straightf

aikidoc 11-26-2004 06:55 PM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
When in Rome. Generally, different people have different feelings. We use colored belts for example for kyu ranks. Some aikikai seminars specifically request you don't wear anything but white or black. I usually tell my students to wear white and no hakama when in doubt. We went to a seminar recently and my students all wore a white belt except for black belts. It was no big deal

andylucas 11-26-2004 11:08 PM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
call and ask if your not sure

Aiki U-Dansha 11-27-2004 04:08 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
I wouldn't either.

The problem is for the kyu grades: if they meet someone who uses hard tecniques on the yudansha during the seminar, this one could think that the Kyu in Hakama is a Yudansha and make some hard tecnique on them...it could be dangerous..

PRapoza 11-27-2004 04:58 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Follow the rules of the hosting dojo. No matter if it's "welcome all styles weekend " or whatever. Stanley Pranin is setting this thing up, I think. He is from Aikikai or the USAF in the US, from what I gather. They don't wear hakama prior to becoming yudansha so leave it (hakama) home and bring your white belt.

Noel 11-27-2004 06:26 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
I'd skip it, personally. Etiquette aside, as mentioned above, if you are wearing a hakama, people expect certain things. Not so much technique and style on your part, but rather the ability to take bone-jarring ukemi, that "special" yonkyo they've spent years developing, or full-bore atemi.

IMO, a little protective coloration is not necessarily a bad thing.

Nick P. 11-27-2004 07:12 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Quote:

Noel Kurth wrote:
IMO, a little protective coloration is not necessarily a bad thing.

Hah! That's exactly what a friend of mine said once he got his bb/hakama: no more masquerading as a white-belt newbie at seminars.

saltlakeaiki 11-28-2004 11:46 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
I'd say if your dojo allows the wearing of hakama, and if you prefer to practice in it, then wear it at seminars. Any yudansha should, by the time they reach that level, be aware that some dojos allow mudansha to wear hakama. Everyone should, in any case, be sensitive to and aware of their partner, and should not apply hard, dangerous techniques unless they have good reason to believe the uke can handle it, even if they know the uke to be a multi-degree yudansha. I would definitely say you should be tying your hakama in such a way that the color of your belt can easily be seen (even at your own dojo). This is especially important if you are still pretty much a beginner and have little confidence in your ability to take ukemi.

Dave

tedehara 11-28-2004 12:56 PM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Whenever I go to a seminar outside of my style, I wear a white belt. Is this appropriate? I figure I have no rank in the dojo's organization so I shouldn't wear a hakama/black belt combo.

Besides, people generally figure out that I'm not 6th kyu after a few throws.
:D

Jonathan Punt 11-28-2004 02:06 PM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Most open courses that I have been on will say if hakamas are only to be worn by dan grades.

If they dont explicitly say 'hakams to be worn by dan grades' then take it as red that anyone can wear it.

saltlakeaiki 11-29-2004 12:01 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Quote:

Ted Ehara wrote:
Whenever I go to a seminar outside of my style, I wear a white belt. Is this appropriate? I figure I have no rank in the dojo's organization so I shouldn't wear a hakama/black belt combo.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's appropriate. If you were training in a different art, I would agree, but aikido is aikido, and while the org you're visiting may not officially recognize your rank, I don't think it's right for a very experienced yudansha to look like a rank beginner. I really think you ought to ask the seminar organizers beforehand. I can't imagine why anyone who would welcome someone from a different style would begrudge them the normal outward symbols of their experience. Hasn't a seminar organizer at one of these times ever told you (albeit too late) that it would have been just fine for you to have worn the usual get-up?

philipsmith 11-29-2004 02:20 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Quote:

Sung Gyun Cho wrote:
I wouldn't either.

The problem is for the kyu grades: if they meet someone who uses hard tecniques on the yudansha during the seminar, this one could think that the Kyu in Hakama is a Yudansha and make some hard tecnique on them...it could be dangerous..


Many years ago I was at a Summer Camp with a Shihan who did a lot of Koshinage. A guy there was wearing hakama and was called up to take ukeme. There was a sickening crunch and a collective gasp as this guy landed directly on his head. The instructor proceeeded to berate him for his ukeme, sayingh something along the lines of not good for a yudansha when the poor guy replied "but Sensei I'm only 5th Kyu"

If you're going to wear your hakama let your partners know your capabilities.

eva 11-29-2004 06:57 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
If it's an "all styles welcome" seminar and the seminar announcement doesn't explicitly say "hakama for dan grades only" then wear whatever you feel comfortable with.
I wouldn't judge people's abilities by what they wear, but I know that some people do make assumptions. So if you are not sure about your ukemi skills make sure the colour of your belt can be seen.
One thing I really hate that happens a lot at some seminars is that if you wear a hakama you get the chance to practise with a lot of advanced people and if you don't wear a hakama and/or BB you end up practising only with relatively new beginners which can make life difficult if it's a seminar of a different style than what you usually practise. On the other hand if you wear a hakama some first kyus etc (who aren't allowed to wear a hakama) might try to test your abilities...
As other people have said: if in doubt ask!

Eva

Dazzler 11-29-2004 07:31 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
I'd add 'dont judge a book by its cover' to this.

I recently trained abroad and due to a bit of a cock-up ended up arriving without my hakama.

Because of this I trained with a white belt on.

I ended up partnered with the local aikiloon (no-one else wanted to train with him...)who was fairly obnoxious for about 2 minutes until he for some reason changed his opinion of me. But by then I'd formed a strong opinion of him which will be much harder to change.

I also started jujitsu when I was nidan in Aikido and went to a seminar where an 18year old black belt talked to me as if I were a 5 year old before standing right in front of me and introducing me to what he considered to be nikkyo.

I have to confess that I've not always been the nice person I am now and did rather enjoy his sharp intake of breath as I said..."you mean like thissssssss'. In my defence I was representing Aikido...

With the current trend to cross training and even just the availability of so much martial arts my advice is to treat every partner with respect and care and assume nothing. Feel what they can do before giving them the works.

Cheers

D

ps. Hi Eva!

tedehara 11-29-2004 07:32 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Quote:

David Iannucci wrote:
...Hasn't a seminar organizer at one of these times ever told you (albeit too late) that it would have been just fine for you to have worn the usual get-up?

Nope. But then I don't regularly go to seminars, so I'm an unknown entity.

Sita Nanthavong 12-02-2004 02:29 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
In our dojo, 1st kyu are allowed to wear hakama only in our home dojo. We are not allowed to wear hakama outside of our home dojo regardless of whether or not we are practising in a sister dojo.

Ditto what a lot of the folks above say... call ahead... but plan on leaving the skirt at home. Though, I'd bring BOTH your white and brown (or whatever colour) belts.

Jonathan Punt 12-02-2004 06:30 AM

Re: Wearing of Hakama at Seminars
 
Quote:

Daren Sims wrote:

I have to confess that I've not always been the nice person I am now


I find that VERY hard to belive.


You were the second nicest Sandan on the mat on Tuesday.


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