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-   -   Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6862)

AikiWeb System 11-07-2004 12:30 AM

Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
AikiWeb Poll for the week of November 7, 2004:

How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Always
  • Almost always
  • Very often
  • Often
  • Somewhat often
  • Seldom
  • Almost never
  • Never
Here are the current results.

Clayton Drescher 11-07-2004 01:20 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
I'm fortunate enough to train at a dojo where everyone "knows their place", except for the occasional new person. Also, everyone senior to me knows more than me, as it should be, so it's never been an issue.

SeiserL 11-07-2004 11:07 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
My Sempai are all very humble. If I didn't mention mistakes so they could improve their training, they would be very upset with me and vice versa. IMHO, staying open to correction from anyone is crucial.

Chuck.Gordon 11-07-2004 01:37 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote:
My Sempai are all very humble. If I didn't mention mistakes so they could improve their training, they would be very upset with me and vice versa. IMHO, staying open to correction from anyone is crucial.

Same here. It is my dire responsibility to gently, positively, subtly and tactfully improve my betters.
As we go on, there ain't many, thus the greater responsibility.
If I really don't respect someone, I will never help them improve. Someone who won't learn, certainly can't help me learn.
For my part, I welcome overeducated beginners with big hearts and exemplary control.
These folks have given much to the art, whether it likes it or not.

MLE

mriehle 11-07-2004 04:08 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
Because I also teach, others will often ask for my help. I offer it when I can. Sometimes I have to respond that I'm not teaching that night. Other times I offer what help I can and point out to those more experienced than I am our relative experience levels.

That being said, we all have our favorite techniques and our, um, least favorite techniques. So, sometimes, I'm actually better at a particular technique than someone more experienced than I am. I offer my help and hope that they will return the favor when we go on to the half dozen other techniques that aren't personal favorites.

Mostly, they do. And that way we both get better at Aikido.

stuartjvnorton 11-07-2004 04:09 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
Never, unless they ask for it.

maikerus 11-07-2004 07:06 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
I think that "correct" is the wrong word. Probably "discuss" would be better because who knows...maybe they know something I don't.

So, if I see something inconsistant or confusing I'll ask. But most of the time since we're doing the technique together with something obviously being different, they'll bring it up.

Michael Young 11-07-2004 07:23 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
I think there are two ways to think about this. One is feedback, the other is criticism. Criticism, even if it is "constructive criticism", is not appropriate from a junior student unless specifically asked for by the senior person....Feedback however is not only appropriate, but essential for the growth of all parties involved. I welcome feedback from my junior students and am prompted for it often by those senior and of equal rank to me. I think the best way to "correct" any interaction though, is through the open communication of an honest attack and sincere correct ukemi, rather than verbal conversation...deficiencies in technique can often be corrected in this manner. Someone senior really can't complain when all you do is provide the correct ukemi, rather from a junior student or senior.

Mike

Melissa Fischer 11-07-2004 11:30 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
How do you identify a "mistake" if you are the junior? There have been times when I thought a senior was doing something wrong only to discover that they were working on a different level, maybe a variation I didn't know yet. Then I'm glad I went with the "empty cup" approach.
Humility often seems to come with high rank, so occasionally someone will ask for feedback, then I say what I can. Also, we have teacher's training classes where we are encouraged to sort to disregard rank and make comments as if we were all equals.

PeterR 11-07-2004 11:38 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
How senior is senior?

Six months, a year, several years?

gstevens 11-08-2004 07:49 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
It seems to me that there are relationships that develop in the Dojo here in the US where there is a little less hierarchy in our daily lives. It is the relationships of respect, and compassion that seem to dictate who says what to whom in our dojo.

I have had sempies ask for my input, and have given it. Generally though unless something is so wrong that I feel uncomfortable as Uke I don't stop the technique to talk about it, unless there is a long pause where the sempie is obviously thinking about what happened. I generally ask first if there was a problem with my Ukemi, and then if they say no, I might add something else like "I didn't really feel guided by the cutting hand", or "it felt like we lost connection after the tenkan"....

Only a couple of times in the last 10 months have I said; "That isn't going to work, if we do that with any more force, or if something goes wrong you are going to break my arm." This seemed to be good feedback as the person, very senior to me, immediately apologized profusely, and then the very next throw changed part of the technique so that there was no pressure on my arm, and it was about 300% more effective, and a lot smoother feeling. We both laughed I as I was flying, he as he was listening to me laugh. It was also a technique that I did not know how to do myself at the time!

Trying to correct your sempie all the time while they are working on a technique would be annoying, and they would probably show you that they were sempie for a reason after the third critique you delivered..... :hypno:

Generally the better the relationship I have with someone at the Dojo, the easier it is to ask if that was the way it was supposed to happen. Or to ask "Sensie demonstrated the cut from high to low, is this a variation?" or My all time favorite "Was I supposed to land on top of you like this?"

suren 11-08-2004 11:10 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
Depends on the person I work with. If I have a good friendly relationship, in the most cases I'll let them know or show if something feels wrong (I can reach them, escape from a technique or smth else), but in some cases I don't do that if the person is too advanced or I don't know how he/she will react.

NagaBaba 11-09-2004 12:11 PM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
I did it very often when I was young and naive. So got hurt. LOL. Not anymore these days ;)

Dario Rosati 11-10-2004 04:36 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
I think I have to specifiy.
The ONLY situation where I "correct" a sempai, is when they start or do a tecnique in a completely different fashion than showed by sensei (for ex: starts as gyaku insead of ai-hanmi, or do irimitenkan instead of tenkan, or goes ura instead of omote an so on... putting me in trouble since I'm far from being able to improvise).

Unfortunately, it seems to me that it happens often (both in dojo and seminars). And, in these situations, I really don't care if they feel "provoked" or whatever by my ko-hai status; I think a) my security b) the respect and attinence for what sensei showed come first.

Bye!

anselm 11-10-2004 07:35 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
i agree

roninja 11-13-2004 12:26 AM

Re: Poll: How often do you verbally correct students senior to yourself who are making mistakes during aikido training?
 
I don't think that I correct others in the sense of "you're wrong..." (well... if someone isn't doing the technique I will say "no", meaning "no, that's not throwing me") I do it in the sense of if we can't figure out why a technique isn't working I'll say "what about..." Some people may find that offensive but I have found that many times students with lower ranks,than me, are able to offer some pretty good tips if I am having trouble figuring out a technique. Being Uke really gives one a great perspective; if the technique is done right , then you get to learn it, if it's done wrong you get to say what you would have needed to feel in order for it to have been done right, then you get to learn it. But this is just my opinion. But overall, I do not think there is much upper ranking Criticism in our school, our Sempai know their stuff well enough so that understudents don't feel the need to "correct". hmm... I wonder if i said it right.
Anyway


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