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-   -   Have you ever offended your uke? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641)

PM 03-09-2001 01:39 PM

Have you ever offended your uke? I have, but believe me when I say, it was an accident. I am a 3rd kyu, training now for three years. I have always tried to humble myself every time I enter the dojo. I look to my aiki training to help me find peace and balance. I fought full contact for years and wanted to get away from that "FIGHT" mentality. I am also a former bodybuilder and still weight train daily, so I am constantly working to over come my own strength and perfect my technique instead. I have always tried to train at the level of my partner, whether they be 5th kyu or Shodan. And with many Shodan, training can be very intense, I really love that type of training, it allows me to get the contact I have always enjoyed. Well one evening at class I sat down to do seated kokyu ho with my partner. He and I had only trained together once or twice in the past. I took his hands and he turned himself in a manner which put him off balance, in the past, with other senior students, if this occured. The off balance person would get a nudge and fall, usually it was me getting nudged. I nudged my Nage, they fell and rolled back popping me in the mouth with his foot. Nage sternly corrected me, I bowed and apologized for offending them. We finished class and they shook my hand and apologized. As I drove home that night, I felt horrible, I truly did not mean to offend this person. But to this date, if we are seated next to each other, they will always turn and train with someone else. I have tried to make conversation, small talk, they are not interested. I have always trained my heart out since the day I walked in the dojo and will never apologie for going 150%. But I don't like the thought of being the jerk in class...any advice, this truly was my fault, but innocent in it's intentions.

Pete

akiy 03-09-2001 02:13 PM

Hi Pete,

Well, being the guilty party in the post above (ie I was the nage that Pete mentioned), I'll just say that there are no hard feelings at all. I still do remember that incident and hold it to be something worthy of recalling of a not-very-pleasant reaction that I had that certainly wasn't expected of me or of you... I don't fault you for what happened nor do I hold any kind of grudge nor bear any offense. I think it's fair to say that all of us have demons in us that rears its ugly head every once in a while...

With that said, I still remember the adage of "uke is always right" that was told to me a while back. I guess I just need to remember that and keep training.

Regards,

-- Jun

Brian Vickery 03-09-2001 02:18 PM

Hi Pete!

...Hey, things like that just happen in a dojo ... miscommunications ...misunderstandings, whatever. You did all that you could do, which was to apologize, so just go on with your training and forget it!

...the drop-out rate in most dojos is above 90%, so the odds are with you that they'll be gone soon anyway! And if they take offense at being thrown during kokyudosa because THEY gave their balance away maybe they should consider finding another hobby. Heck, they should have THANKED you for showing them a hole in their technique instead of being offended!

Best regards,

Brian Vickery 03-09-2001 02:31 PM

OOOPPPS! ...sorry about that Jun!!! ...you posted while I was composing my response!

Pete, forget the 'Wait-them-out' strategy, Jun isn't going anywhere! :^)

...although you two have seem to work things out just fine anyway!

(...I ve stuck my foot in my mouth before, but never my keyboard!)

akiy 03-09-2001 02:35 PM

Quote:

Brian Vickery wrote:
OOOPPPS! ...sorry about that Jun!!! ...you posted while I was composing my response!
Hey, no need to apologize. What you wrote above was very right on the mark. What you wrote is worth enough for it to be worthy for an unnamed person -- why shouldn't it be worthy enough for me to hear/read?
Quote:

Pete, forget the 'Wait-them-out' strategy, Jun isn't going anywhere! :^)
Well, no guarantees about that...
Quote:

...although you two have seem to work things out just fine anyway!
I hope so.
Quote:

(...I ve stuck my foot in my mouth before, but never my keyboard!)
They're both about as tasty...

-- Jun

Erik 03-09-2001 02:54 PM

Quote:

Brian Vickery wrote:
(...I ve stuck my foot in my mouth before, but never my keyboard!)
I came really close on this one too and was only saved by the fact that Jun had a quicker trigger finger than I did. Mine was worse than yours, because I checked the dojo, saw it was Boulder and nearly made a wise-assed Jun comment, because I would never have expected it from Jun.

Funny how people have bad nights sometimes. I used to train with a women who is the epitomy of happy/positive thinking. One night a 5th kyu threw her too hard and she got up and just chewed the poor guy's ass out. And I mean chewed. She yelled at him at the top of her lungs in the middle of class.

I still get a chuckle out of it because the poor guy was probably 75 pounds and a head taller than she was and he looked like he'd been hit by a freight train. If he measured anything taller than 6" by the time she was done, he was measured with a defective ruler. It was so completely out of character that we all had to pick our jaws up off the floor.:)

Brian Vickery 03-09-2001 03:22 PM

[/quote]... because I checked the dojo, saw it was Boulder and nearly made a wise-assed Jun comment, because I would never have expected it from Jun. [/b][/quote]

Erik,
...Hmmm! Now I know what that user profile icon is for!!! ...This was a lesson well learned!

[/quote]What you wrote is worth enough for it to be worthy for an unnamed person -- why shouldn't it be worthy enough for me to hear/read? [/b][/quote]

Jun,
...slamming a guy in his own place is just flat out uncalled for! Again, I apologize!

BC 03-09-2001 03:40 PM

I'm pretty sure that I've offended my uke once before, although it was unintentional. I was practicing with a partner who was at the same grade as me, and we were just starting a new technique. She seemed to be having trouble remembering how the technique began, so I casually mentioned that I thought it started with a tenshin movement. She snapped back at me that she knew that and started the technique. I apologized and said that I hadn't intended to make her mad, and we went on practicing. Funny thing is, normally I really never try to verbally coach my partners about the techniques. That taught me a lesson: just shut my mouth and keep training!

One the other side of that, I have been offended by my uke. Last Sat. in class I practiced with one guy who I have now decided that I will never bow in with again. I'm just plain tired of his arrogant, condescending manner, time and time again. At the end of class, even the instructor came over to me and told me he clapped for everyone to switch partners early to get him away from me. I know this is a little bit off topic, but has anyone else had to do this before?


[Edited by BC on March 9, 2001 at 02:50pm]

akiy 03-09-2001 04:12 PM

Quote:

Brian Vickery wrote:
...slamming a guy in his own place is just flat out uncalled for! Again, I apologize!
Pshaw. I'd rather be told of my openings than they just be ignored by others. If I didn't want to be "fair game" as anyone else here, I wouldn't be posting...

-- Jun

Erik 03-09-2001 04:52 PM

Quote:

BC wrote:
I know this is a little bit off topic, but has anyone else had to do this before?
I have one that's still sort of going on, although, it's gotten much better. Mine built up over a few months with a lot of behind the back BS and crystalized one night in a very basic get off the line with a yokomen strike. The guy was dropping his head forward and it caused me to alter the attack. He was effectively doing an atemi, unbeknownst to him, and the atemi caused me to want to drop a second strike on him which he was vulnerable to. He got mad and started lecturing me about how I was supposed to attack and the practice was this way. This guy barely even knows the names of the techniques and HE'S LECTURING ME!!!!! HIS AIKIDO SEMPAI TO THE TUNE OF YEARS!!!!! I NOW KNOW NEARLY PURE RAGE! It took everything I had not to take him out and I mean out. I will say that he stopped dropping his head about then as well. My yokomen's were getting pretty short and my hand was not very open at that point. It was a good decision on his part because if something bad had happened I'd have just gone over to work with another partner while he woke up.

It's taken me a long time to get over this one as it's my first aikido conflict of this sort in 12 years. I've been mad at someone, and surely made someone else mad, but never like this.

I learned a lot from it. I recently saw him doing the same thing with a 4th kyu. I realized that he's gotten into it with every single person in the dojo, men or women, sensei or kohai, he does not discriminate. Apparently, it's how he communicates. Once I understood that, I could deal with it. A$$..... need this practice too.

By the way, we've actually started working with each other again and it's been more productive. Time maybe heals a lot of wounds.

[Edited by Erik on March 9, 2001 at 11:35pm]

Daniel 03-14-2001 01:03 AM

Aikido - Cultural Mindsets & Ettiquette
 
Please excuse me as I am new to aikido studies, but as I read through these posts I was amazed at the experiences you've all had. Have these incidents occurred predominantly in the West or have some of these occurred in the East as well? Thank you for your replies.

Erik 03-14-2001 01:24 AM

Re: Aikido - Cultural Mindsets & Ettiquette
 
Quote:

Daniel wrote:
Please excuse me as I am new to aikido studies, but as I read through these posts I was amazed at the experiences you've all had. Have these incidents occurred predominantly in the West or have some of these occurred in the East as well? Thank you for your replies.
Mine were in the West, but personally I thought even mine which I probably overplayed were pretty minor. Getting mad happens. I've heard of worse.

andrew 03-14-2001 06:40 AM

Wow. It seems like most of the times we train in my club we try and make idiots of each other. Particularly in kokyo-ho. It is a place of constant laughter.
Mind you, there's helpful pointing out of flaws involved (fun) and occasionally insincere attacks coupled with blocking (irritating.)
andrew

PM 03-14-2001 10:58 AM

Thanks to all who replied. I spend so much of my day in one confrontation after another. The dojo was the one place I could go and find peace.




Pete

Guest5678 03-14-2001 11:16 AM

Offending Uke?
 
Hey,

I go out of my way to offend everyone on the mat every night I'm there. I consider it my job to present ample opportunities for them to practice their blending...... he-he-he!


There is no destination, there is only the journey.

Dan P. - Mongo



ronin_10562 03-14-2001 03:20 PM

I hate it when some one forgets to wash their gi in the summer time after a good work out.

Walt

BC 03-14-2001 03:26 PM

Quote:

ronin_10562 wrote:
I hate it when some one forgets to wash their gi in the summer time after a good work out.

Walt

Yeah, or when they let their dogi stink like cigarettes or incense. :(


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